To think boys shouldn’t go in to men’s toilets???

[Scotlandma]

This is hypothetical I seen another post about someone not letting their 9 year old use mens public bathrooms

what age do other people let their children go in to toilets on their own?

and how do you navigate them using the disabled toilets if not?? I’d be so worried in case someone actually disabled needed them

rampagingrobot

data doesn’t really cut it when faced with real life safeguarding decisions. Your child, your sense of what is safe and isn’t. Every child, circumstances and situation differs.

It's not silly and dramatic at all. It's actually very relevant because this is one of the big reasons why transwomen want to use the female bathrooms. Because it isn't safe for them in the men's due to the likelihood of them getting assaulted for being trans. If people argue safety comes before female dignity then this is what's going to happen.

I only have a 5 nearly 5 DS but he comes with me to the ladies and will continue to do so until I feel comfortable sending him in on his own to the mens.

BadNomad

Well it is silly because we’re talking about children not adults and again parents should focus on the safety of their child.

Your child, your safeguarding decision. That is all a parent should focus on.

@rampagingrobot "The other side saying all boys are rapists and will attack woman whilst their mother watches, so must never be in the ladies." Except nobody is saying this. At all. It's made up bollocks.

A man going into the ladies is not safe for the ladies, so it doesn't clear the bar of keeping everyone safe.

Me taking a child into the ladies who I can ensure is not going to attack anyone does.

Who decides what is safe? Not the ladies, apparently. They're just expected to shut up and flush away their dignity because it's pointless to try to keep it.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I find it sad a nine year boy is viewed as some kind of pervert. No wonder men grow up with so many issues 😑

No one is saying he’s a pervert but there comes a point where children need to use the correctly sexed toilet. My husband isn’t a pervert either but it’s still not appropriate for him to enter a ladies’ toilet

I knew an 8 year old boy who was sexually assaulted in a men's toilet in a supermarket. On the rare occasion my son needed the loo, I took him into the ladies with me, till he was about 9. I always went in first and asked if anyone minded. Occasionally, I had people tutting, so we waited until they'd gone (worst was FIL at a family do, who tried to insist he should use the disgusting gents loos). My son reached an age where he was embarrassed and didn't want to go in the ladies anymore, so I used to stand right outside the Gent's door whilst he went in first and checked it out, then he came straight out and told me if it was OK (i.e no one else in there). If he didn't come straight out, I'd open the door and shout to see if he was OK, I also did this if anyone went in after him. I really couldn't care less what any men in there thought, if they were decent they'd understand. It wasn't for long, I did it till he was savvy enough to judge for himself whether there was anyone there he felt uncomfortable with. I don't mind boys of any age in the ladies, it's all cubicles. I'd rather a child was safe than go through what that poor boy in the supermarket did.

There have been a few mentions here where girls have been abused by boys accompanied by their mothers or women have had boys look under cubicles while using the toilet again accompanied.

safety is important and maybe instead of the default being until comfortable I will bring my son, regardless of age, until I as a parent feel it’s safe, into the female toilets. Maybe it’s time that everyone, male and female, trans or not, young and old, disabled and not, petition for single enclosed cubicles so everyone feels safe?

Nine is very young. I still remember being nine myself.

“Flush away their dignity” oh please.

In the case of child safety frankly I don’t think there is a mother in the planet who wouldn’t try and work with a child walking past whilst nipping in and out of an enclosed and locked toilet cubical.

As the parent of a now adult child who feels vulnerable in male toilets he now has more options, is now able to work round it, can plan ahead,knows safe spaces for him and can hold on if needs be.

My 6 year old comes in the ladies with me. Something happened to a child in Manchester arndale public toilets.

This isn't really helpful because these people obviously do exist and a quick google search can show that. The nasty assault on the boy in the Manchester Arndale toilets is the first to come to mind.

However its rare and as with all things we need to risk assess and teach our kids what to do if someone makes them feel uncomfortable. My son is only little but using a urinal is apparently a massive treat and he gets quite upset having to go in the ladies with me.

It's not being said explicitly, but is being strongly implied by some.

No one's disagreeing that 'there comes a point where children need to use the correctly sexed toilet'.

But it's mothers of sons that have to decide when this point comes. It's an individual decision based on the child's needs, maturity level and any other relevant factors to be weighed up in the moment. That's what safeguarding is.

Ignoring data is no way to live

It's actually not safer at all to have Full length cubicles. In public spaces staff need to be able to check the toilets. People whi have collapsed or had a heart attack might end up not found. People might be deaf and get locked in overnight. Predators would be able to pull children women or teens in with them. People would use them to have sex. Drug users would leave syringes etc in there like happens with unlocked disabled or park toilets.
There is a reason stalls do not have full doors, and it's not actually money.

Yet people never use this argument for accessible toilets, the ones likely occupied by those who are more likely to fall, have a seizure, struggle with the lock etc.

if not single unisex facilities where everyone can feel safe while maintaining dignity, what is the answer?
I understand concerns raised, I have one of each but why should my daughter be stated at by boys in a toilet because their mum is distracted with assisting another child and not able to watch them?
Why should girls give up hobbies or using the female facilities because they have been assaulted by a boy?
it isn’t always about comfort but if people aren’t willing to fight for facilities suitable for all why is the default that girls suffer?

*stared not stated

Merrymumoftwo

“stared at by boys” “suffer” seriously . Utterly ridiculous rhetoric.

How on earth do girls cope in school?Boys are around girls all day every day at school. You’d be luck to get my sons to stay around long enough to wash their hands let alone stare at a girl. And should a boy stare at a girl washing her hands or walking en route from a cubical to the door I think they’d cope.

FYI suffering is rebuilding your life after abuse not washing your hands in the same area as young male children walking through for a fleeting minute.

These threads are pointless, parents do and should weigh up the huge variation in circumstances and risk for their own children and act accordingly.

Have you noticed a filthy, red cord in the accessible toilet? The purpose of the cord is not only to be filthy, but it can also be used to send a 'help me' message.

Anyway, the idea of men being so concerned with their own dignity is making me laugh right now. The number of men in London who don't even bother looking for the toilet....

In my area the old style toilet blocks are being replaced by single unisex toilets. A proper solid construction that has secure doors but the doors automatically open after a certain amount of time (can't remember but something like 15 or 20 minutes unless you pay for extra time) they are also in very public places opening onto a main street or on the prom by the beach. The lighting round them has been increased so they don't feel dark or scary. They feel so much safer than the old blocks they replace, walking into one of those blocks you never knew who was in a cubicle and you definitely got drug users. People have sex in the old style toilet blocks and at least with the single toilets no one else has to listen to it.

How does anyone know whether a 9-10 year old child fully clothed is a boy or a girl anyway?
I used to get stopped going into women's loos alone when I was that age because old ladies thought I was a boy. As a result I git scared to go alone and had to go with my dad to the men's sometimes.
No one has commented on my son coming in with me to the women's, but if they did I'd wonder why they were assuming he's a boy.