Page 30 | To think boys shouldn’t go in to men’s toilets???

Scotlandma · 2023-04-27T21:05:05+00:00

This is hypothetical I seen another post about someone not letting their 9 year old use mens public bathrooms what age do other people let their children go in to toilets on their own? and how do you navigate them using the disabled toilets if not?? I’d be so worried in case someone actually disabled needed them

Clarabell77 · 29/04/2023 09:09

Jonei · 28/04/2023 21:47

I'm sure they'll thank you for not enabling their independence and keeping them close to you at whatever cost. 👍

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When did choosing which toilet to use become critical to enabling a child’s independence?

Sirzy · 29/04/2023 10:08

Clarabell77 · 29/04/2023 09:09

When did choosing which toilet to use become critical to enabling a child’s independence?

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Well telling a child that the men’s toilets are some dangerous playground for perverts isn’t really going to help encourage independence is it.

people need to be sensible and realistic about the risk too many people as can be seen on this thread blow the risk up out of proportion and that is more harmful than the actual “risk” itself.

roaringmouse · 29/04/2023 14:29

Sirzy · 29/04/2023 10:08

Well telling a child that the men’s toilets are some dangerous playground for perverts isn’t really going to help encourage independence is it.

people need to be sensible and realistic about the risk too many people as can be seen on this thread blow the risk up out of proportion and that is more harmful than the actual “risk” itself.

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Not sure I've seen anyone on this thread blow the risk out of proportion. The risk exists. It's may be small, but it exists. And mothers of sons can assess that risk for themselves and do what they need to do to minimise it. This seems a perfectly sensible and realistic approach.

Burgoo · 29/04/2023 14:37

Goodness sake please stop! (not the OP in particular, just the hysterical responses in general!)

I went into the blokes toilets from a young-ish age, so did all my friends and my younger brother. NONE of us were ever molested or anything in a bloody public toilet. It doesn't happen (and if it were to happen we are talking extreme rarity).

Men are not creeping around toilets trying to abuse kids that enter them. We just aren't. There are always the very rare exceptions but most blokes that see kids in the toilets (from my experience) tend to steer well clear, leave a gap between urinals (which is a general etiquette anyway) or use the stalls. I am SO conscious of youngsters and actively go out of my way to give them a wide berth (because of shit like this).

As for cleanliness, it varies. Some places are a bit grim but most are just normal toilets. I hear from female friends that women's can be a bit hair-raising, especially in pubs.

In short, give it a rest. Men aren't boogeymen who lurk around waiting to attack kids or women. "Dangers of the gents toilets", dear god! The main danger is slipping on piss that has missed the urinal and landing face first in the porcelain (my friend actually had that happen on a drunken night out!)

Burgoo · 29/04/2023 14:38

@roaringmouse "And mothers of sons can assess that risk for themselves and do what they need to do to minimise it."

How can you assess a risk when you don't even go into the places!?

Startyabastard · 29/04/2023 14:51

fitzwilliamdarcy · 27/04/2023 22:36

Yeah, I stopped swimming at 9 because I hit puberty early and mums of boys were bringing their 10 year olds into the changing rooms because they couldn’t get changed by themselves and they saw them as innocent.

Same boys would comment on my breasts and on a couple of occasions reach out and grab them whilst their mums weren’t looking.

The problem as always is that adult men can’t be trusted but what happens is that girls and women pay the price, as spaces become “men” and “boys” rather than men and women.

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Very true.

YouCouldHaveKnockedMeDownWithAFeather · 29/04/2023 15:13

Startyabastard · 29/04/2023 14:51

Very true.

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We had a problem with this is my sons swimming sessions.
But it was stopped.
Parents were not allowed into childrens changing spaces once they got to school age.
That includes mums of daughters in girls changing rooms and dads of sons in boys changing rooms.
The only problem with those young kids changing was the playing about…so we d take it in turns to push the door slightly open and shout at the lot of them..

So the answer to swimming / changing situations is to not allow adults in at all.

Then there are no protection issues.
But at the moment we do not have public children only toilets. Maybe that’s what we need…
Until we get that then it’s family rooms or disabled facilities for families that need them. Neither of which are illegal to use.

Parents who are upset by others trying to look after their children in what ever facility should contact their local MPs, maybe MN can get this discussed in Parliament. Or start a petition on YouGov.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 29/04/2023 15:37

@YouCouldHaveKnockedMeDownWithAFeather You had an issue with boys touching girls in the changing room that was solved by removing the adults? How did that work? I’m genuinely curious.

YouCouldHaveKnockedMeDownWithAFeather · 29/04/2023 15:41

fitzwilliamdarcy · 29/04/2023 15:37

@YouCouldHaveKnockedMeDownWithAFeather You had an issue with boys touching girls in the changing room that was solved by removing the adults? How did that work? I’m genuinely curious.

No I didn’t have that issue the PP did.
We had an issue with adults being in kids changing rooms. The girls and boys changing rooms were separate.
Girls in one, boys in another…no adults at all.

Whodunitme · 29/04/2023 15:42

I think age is every thing..my 14 year old grandson goes into mens toilets and I stand outside waiting for him..my 7 and 8 year old grandsons come into the ladies toilets with me and come into the same cubicle as I go into..I wouldn't have it any different.

YouCouldHaveKnockedMeDownWithAFeather · 29/04/2023 15:46

@Whodunitme how on earth can you fit 2 kids and you into one cubicle.?
It must be very large, I know some ikea cubicles are very generous but that’s not the norm. Usually they aren’t even wide enough to fit the sanitary bin in.

CellophaneFlower · 29/04/2023 16:20

I went into the blokes toilets from a young-ish age, so did all my friends and my younger brother. NONE of us were ever molested or anything in a bloody public toilet. It doesn't happen (and if it were to happen we are talking extreme rarity).

This is the most ridiculous thing I've read on this thread. It CAN happen and it DOES. How short sighted of you to think that if it didn't happen to you, it's not an issue. Most people's young children will never be involved in a car accident. Nobody's young children I know have. Should I therefore not bother using a car seat?

If you were a paedophile and you were bored of looking at sick photos on the internet, where are you most likely to find a young boy in a state of undress without an adult?

No, it's not something that's going on in every male loo round the country, but the threat is real and the consequences for my children are something I'd do anything to avoid.

YouCouldHaveKnockedMeDownWithAFeather · 29/04/2023 16:29

CellophaneFlower · 29/04/2023 16:20

I went into the blokes toilets from a young-ish age, so did all my friends and my younger brother. NONE of us were ever molested or anything in a bloody public toilet. It doesn't happen (and if it were to happen we are talking extreme rarity).

This is the most ridiculous thing I've read on this thread. It CAN happen and it DOES. How short sighted of you to think that if it didn't happen to you, it's not an issue. Most people's young children will never be involved in a car accident. Nobody's young children I know have. Should I therefore not bother using a car seat?

If you were a paedophile and you were bored of looking at sick photos on the internet, where are you most likely to find a young boy in a state of undress without an adult?

No, it's not something that's going on in every male loo round the country, but the threat is real and the consequences for my children are something I'd do anything to avoid.

Well done @CellophaneFlower for pointing this out. I think other MN on here are too exhausted with these ridiculous comments to be bothered any more.

roaringmouse · 29/04/2023 18:55

Burgoo · 29/04/2023 14:37

Goodness sake please stop! (not the OP in particular, just the hysterical responses in general!)

I went into the blokes toilets from a young-ish age, so did all my friends and my younger brother. NONE of us were ever molested or anything in a bloody public toilet. It doesn't happen (and if it were to happen we are talking extreme rarity).

Men are not creeping around toilets trying to abuse kids that enter them. We just aren't. There are always the very rare exceptions but most blokes that see kids in the toilets (from my experience) tend to steer well clear, leave a gap between urinals (which is a general etiquette anyway) or use the stalls. I am SO conscious of youngsters and actively go out of my way to give them a wide berth (because of shit like this).

As for cleanliness, it varies. Some places are a bit grim but most are just normal toilets. I hear from female friends that women's can be a bit hair-raising, especially in pubs.

In short, give it a rest. Men aren't boogeymen who lurk around waiting to attack kids or women. "Dangers of the gents toilets", dear god! The main danger is slipping on piss that has missed the urinal and landing face first in the porcelain (my friend actually had that happen on a drunken night out!)

Sorry @Burgoo, remind me again whose getting hysterical here?

ObeseRat69 · 29/04/2023 19:10

@Burgoo if we apply your logic to, let’s say, being mugged, it would be like saying ”I’ve never been mugged and neither have any of my friends so it must have never happened to anybody else”

Florenz · 29/04/2023 19:56

Children need to learn independence. It's a parents job to help them develop into Adults. The safest thing to do would be to never let them out of the house, but no-one would advocate that (I hope). They have to be exposed to risk to be able to assess risk and develop necessary skills that they'll need as an adult.

ItWillWash · 29/04/2023 20:18

I really don't get the insistence that "most" men are not predatory.

97% of women and girls who responded to a YouGov poll said they had experienced sexual harassment in the streets. 1 in 4 women have been raped.

If "99% of men" are "not like that" as stated on this thread then 1% of men are fucking busy.

https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/97-of-women-in-the-uk/105940/#:~:text=The%20dominant%20stat%20across%20media,as%20part%20of%20their%20existence.

Research finds that 97% of women in the UK have been sexually harassed

An investigation by UN Women UK found that 97% of women surveyed have been sexually harassed, with a further 96% not reporting those situations

https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/97-of-women-in-the-uk/105940#:~:text=The%20dominant%20stat%20across%20media,as%20part%20of%20their%20existence.

Ohhelpicantthinkofaname · 29/04/2023 20:23

After about age 7 or 8 boys should be going in the boys toilets, unless there are reasons such as a disability which means they can’t go in alone. Then they should use the disabled.

taking Your 8 year old grandson into the same cubicle as you, as one poster says she does, seems excessive and frankly a bit odd.

YouCouldHaveKnockedMeDownWithAFeather · 29/04/2023 20:26

Ohhelpicantthinkofaname · 29/04/2023 20:23

After about age 7 or 8 boys should be going in the boys toilets, unless there are reasons such as a disability which means they can’t go in alone. Then they should use the disabled.

taking Your 8 year old grandson into the same cubicle as you, as one poster says she does, seems excessive and frankly a bit odd.

There are no boys toilets except in schools. Assume you mean the mens?

BadNomad · 29/04/2023 20:33

ItWillWash · 29/04/2023 20:18

I really don't get the insistence that "most" men are not predatory.

97% of women and girls who responded to a YouGov poll said they had experienced sexual harassment in the streets. 1 in 4 women have been raped.

If "99% of men" are "not like that" as stated on this thread then 1% of men are fucking busy.

https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/97-of-women-in-the-uk/105940/#:~:text=The%20dominant%20stat%20across%20media,as%20part%20of%20their%20existence.

Why is that hard to believe? You think the men who sexually harass/assault women only do it once or twice? Very, very few get convicted for their first assault. Very few even get reported because women know it's pointless. Those types of men spend their whole lives mistreating women.

Ohhelpicantthinkofaname · 29/04/2023 20:34

YouCouldHaveKnockedMeDownWithAFeather · 29/04/2023 20:26

There are no boys toilets except in schools. Assume you mean the mens?

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Someone has a lot of time on their hands.

yes, if you want to be pedantic about it I mean the mens.

Satsumastocking · 29/04/2023 21:05

Bellevu · 29/04/2023 00:17

@Satsumastocking why can't you accompany your 10 year old son into the men's loos? Wouldn't that be better than insisting he's in the women's toilets because you're not confident that he can go to the toilet alone?

I just hadn't thought of it. I assumed I wasn't allowed in. Now I've read the suggestion here...I feel uncomfortable going into the men's because I'm very shy and would worry about men being angry that I was there. Plus, an adult male wanting to harrass someone might harrass a small woman and child just as much as a child alone!

Satsumastocking · 29/04/2023 21:08

nomoredriving · 29/04/2023 07:58

@CellophaneFlower I thought on MN every make was presumed predatory.

I don't think many men are predatory in that sense (many watch porn, which is predatory but legal, instead, though men I hang out with don't on the whole). More the problem with public loos is that the tiny minority who are might hang out in those places specifically.

Satsumastocking · 29/04/2023 21:10

Bellevu · 29/04/2023 00:17

@Satsumastocking why can't you accompany your 10 year old son into the men's loos? Wouldn't that be better than insisting he's in the women's toilets because you're not confident that he can go to the toilet alone?

Plus many public loos have urinals, so men have reason not to want females walking past. I really think cubicles are the answer.

Satsumastocking · 29/04/2023 21:14

BadNomad · 28/04/2023 19:36

Or is it not actually about the children's safety at all but rather about you and your feelings and need to feel comfortable? You don't go into the men's bathroom because you would feel uncomfortable even though your child is safe and using the right bathroom.

I'd expect a dad to take his daughter into the men's loo with him rather than go into the women's loo with her. Another reason to get rid of urinals. Or to have family loos in more places.