To think boys shouldn’t go in to men’s toilets???

[Scotlandma]

This is hypothetical I seen another post about someone not letting their 9 year old use mens public bathrooms

what age do other people let their children go in to toilets on their own?

and how do you navigate them using the disabled toilets if not?? I’d be so worried in case someone actually disabled needed them

@WinterofOurDiscountTentz It's not about risk, it's about privacy for women.

The thing is some boys of 9 are pre-pubescent. I don't especially want a boy that age hovering outside a cubicle if I'm changing san pro (you can always hear the rustle.)

Call me a prude (don't care!) Nor do I want him peeing on the seat or the floor.

Boys of 9 are old enough to use the men's.

Mum can wait outside and look inside if she is worried.

@WinterofOurDiscountTentz we're not talking about risk. We're talking about the comfort and convenience of girls. As usual, being disregarded.

Girls aren't sitting with their pants around their ankles in women's refuges. Bathrooms are private places. It's why they have locks. Girls using the female-only bathroom in a public places should not have to worry about boys being in the room. If somewhere is female-only then it needs to be female-only. Otherwise, it's not female-only and people need to stop calling that.

They exist already as parent and child rooms.

Children who are young go with a parent into the loo. Ideally same sex if possible.

Very young children can use the accessible loo with either parent or adult.

I've been asked by a dad to escort a young girl (about 5) into the ladies and was happy to do so. This was in a supermarket.

He clearly didn't want to go in, nor take her to the Gents.

Privacy for women, from men. Not from small boys. I'm not saying there isn't a cut off point, I'm just saying we don't all agree on where that is and you dont get to decide it. It's not that simple.
What about my boy with additional needs? Is he to just get on with it himself as well? Are accommodations for his needs important too, or just your need for privacy from him? I'm not saying it is either way, I'm just saying its not a simple question.

My young boy is no more likely to pee on the seat or floor than my young girl is, by the way.

I'm absolutely all for single sex spaces for women. But I'm also absolutely for safety for ALL children. Sometimes competing rights butt up against each other and one person can't just declare they are correct and thats that.

@CellophaneFlower Yes, they are children. That's why I, as an adult woman wouldn't mind a 9 year old boy in the women's loo. But when I was 9, I would have been mortified. And girls have a right to privacy, and to have their feelings considered.

@WinterofOurDiscountTentz Your did with additional needs has the disabled loo to use.

There needs to be more if so many people are still having to take their boys into the female bathroom.

They are sitting with their pants down in the locked cubicle. That's private. A young boy in the cubicle next to them is not in the same space.

Ok , so you seem to be saying no males of any kind in the ladies loo, right? So a 3 month old baby boy? A two year old? Are they banned or not?

Is it a total ban on even the tiniest penises, or is there a cut off age, as it were?

How old is he?

Most places have an accessible loo and if he has additional needs, that's your place to go.

Only last week I saw on adult man, clearly with additional needs or learning difficulties being taken into an accessible loo by his Mum who looked as if she was in her 50s. She asked me if the loo was being used, as the lock looked as if it was engaged- and it wasn't.

People understand these things.

He's not disabled. Many people would argue that he should not be in there, same as many are arguing he shouldn't be in the ladies.
As I said, not simple.

Well what are his additional needs? These can be learning difficulties not just mobility issues.

Accessible loos are not just for a physical disability you know. They are for anyone who needs assistance for any reason, or for adults who need more space ( maybe to change stoma bags, or anything medical like not being able to wait- IBS, colitis, bladder issues, etc.

You don't need to explain to anyone why you need to take him to that kind of loo.

If your boy has additional needs then there already is a bathroom for him. Everyone deserves dignity and respect. Everyone. That includes girls. And, no, parents shouldn't get to decide when their boys are too old to use the female bathroom. There should be a set age and then an alternative bathroom for when they reach that age if their parent still don't feel they are ready for the male bathroom. You don't get to decide my daughter just needs to accept seeing boys in her safe space.

Mortified that a boy is in a place where you're concealed in a cubicle? Really? Have you struggled a lot with life in general?

Who would argue that a child with additional needs shouldn't use the loo specifically intended for people with disabilities???

@BadNomad I think the unwritten 'rule' is that by age 8 or 9 they should use same sex facilities.

There is usually a parent & child room in large shops and service stations. These have a loo and a changing area or can be used to feeding.

Otherwise, parents can use the accessible toilet if their child has special needs.

No one needs to explain to anyone.

I have used accessible loos now and then when they Ladies was full as I have IBS and sometimes just cannot wait. Looking at me, no one would know. So yes, I feel a fraud sometimes, but that's how it goes.

Part of posting here is to make people aware why others may need that sort of loo.

"Mortified that a boy is in a place where you're concealed in a cubicle? Really? Have you struggled a lot with life in general?"
Yep. Mostly with people who persist in disingenuously not getting the point. But I cope.

Boils down to we know that no matter how uncomfortable women and girls are, they have been socialised to shut up, whereas men will say something

No it boils down to the fact that most women would feel extremely uncomfortable walking into men’s toilets.

@CellophaneFlower You clearly don't know that some girls of 9 have started their periods.

They do not want a boy in the same space when trying to cope with changing san pro and especially in loos that have very short doors with gaps above and below.

This can be a very sensitive age for girls, you know.

I get your point. I just don't agree with it and I'm not pretending otherwise.

Private? There's nothing private about them. I'm guessing you've never had a little child peek under your door while their mother is toileting another child. You've never walked out of your cubicle as a child to find an older boy standing there. Or sat there peeing and hear a boy's voice outside your door. It's jarring and confusing, because it's unexpected, because you think you're in a female bathroom.

Ok so now there should be a set age? You implied that any age was bad. So what is that set age? Should you decide it? Should there be a vote?

Lets say its...7? Is your daughter fine with boys in her safe space the day before their 7th birthday and not ok with it the day after? What's the difference? It's not really a rational stance.
No, I don't get to decide your daughter needs to accept seeing boys in her "safe space" but equally you don't get to decide that my son has to go to the mens toilets alone at the age of your choosing.
Do you see how that works?

And are you saying that every building should have a mens toilets, a womens toilets, an accessible toilet, and a boys to old for the ladies but too young for the mens toilets?
That's a lot of toilets.

I'm merely pointing out that hypothetical opinions don't always translate to practicality and real life. And that lot's of people have various rights that can overlap. You can't declare the one you care about to be top of the pile.

No one is concealed in a cubicle. Not properly.

Most loos have tiny doors with gaps above and below. Sounds travel.

I know of adults who will never ever poo in a public loo as they are embarrassed that noise travels.

Isn't the cut off point usually 8? Most swimming pools say t gf at for changing rooms.

@WinterofOurDiscountTentz I've already posted that there is a general consensus of around age 9 which is when puberty kicks in for girls, boys a bit later .

Most places do legally have to have an accessible loo. You can even buy a Radar key for access if he has needs.

If your son needs a loo and has to be accompanied each time, it's partly on you to find one that he can use because most shops , cafes, etc will have a choice.