To think boys shouldn’t go in to men’s toilets???

[Scotlandma]

This is hypothetical I seen another post about someone not letting their 9 year old use mens public bathrooms

what age do other people let their children go in to toilets on their own?

and how do you navigate them using the disabled toilets if not?? I’d be so worried in case someone actually disabled needed them

Well, regardless of whether or not anyone thinks boys 8+ shouldn't be in the men's, they certainly shouldn't be in the women's. Aren't most assaults by people the child knows? Pretty sure statistically there is a greater chance of abuse if they're spending the afternoon with their grandad or uncle.
I suppose you'll have to take it up with the establishment about a family toilet/ disabled. Vote with your feet and don't go there if not I guess.

Well, a frightening number of teachers abuse children too, but none (or not many) of you stop your children from going to school or insist on sitting in the classroom with them to keep them safe. Apparently that risk is fine. But boys using a bathroom alone is a risk that just can't be taken.

"It's a decision based on the child's needs, maturity level and any other relevant factors at the time."
And also based on occasion on disregarding the comfort an convenience of girls.

Kids abused in X place so don't try to mitigate risk in Y place?

How about no?

Yes, I have already acknowledged this point several times. Keeping children safe from predatory adults trumps comfort and inconvenience.

No. I'm saying you can't use "kids safety always comes first" as an argument when you pick and choose when their safety comes first.

If we're supposed to educate boys that females need a safe place, could we also not educate girls that sometimes it might be necessary for a young boy to be in a female place, with his mum, as it's safer for them?

@CellophaneFlower - girls are already expected to make way for boys in many ways. But hey.

"DD, female spaces are female spaces, until males need to use them. Be kind ok. Shhh."

How about "DD, you need protection from predatory males, and so do boys. Caring about you does not mean throwing your brother to the wolves"

Go campaign for safe spaces for children. A child-only bathroom with a lower sink and toilet within the cubicle.

"Why is it unthinkable for an adult woman to enter men's toilets with her 9/10/11 year old son, but pearl clutching for girls and women to mind a 10 year old boy with his mum in an intimate space?"

I don't think it's pearl clutching to mind a 10 year old boy in the women's, that's too old. But in that same way a woman should not take her son into the men's room either as men want privacy too.

The separation by sex is designed to give people privacy from opposite sex adults and from older children but not very small children of the opposite sex.

No, its about risk/benefit analysis. Going to school, huge reward, small risk. Sending young boys alone into random male toilets, no reward, small risk.

Small risk in both, though latter higher risk, and no reward. This isn't hard.

"By why isn't there a safer place for boys to go to the toilet?"
"It's just easier this way. Stop complaining."

To be fair- the last time I was on Mumsnet it was pre Be Kind. And people thought boy's needs trumped girl's needs then too.

Ridiculous argument and not at all comparable.

But you said girls shouldn't be in the toilet with boys, so wouldn't that be a boy only toilet? I'm not following what you want here.

I'm the absolute first one to say no men in womens spaces. But we have sons, and they matter just as much as our daughters. Maximising dignity and safety for everyone is the goal. Don't forget about a whole group.

No, actually answer your hypothetical childs hypothetical question. I would.

Males under the age of risk to females can go into the female spaces with their female caregivers.

You realise women's refuges don't ban women with boy children, right?

It depends completely on where you are and on the confidence of the child. My son is 6. In some places (eg. Local book shop/coffee shop mostly occupied by other mums and children where I can see the door from our table) he can go in by himself. If we are somewhere he hasn't been before or in an more adult space eg. Cinema, pub/restaurant, supermarket etc. he would come in with me.

Is there any actual measurable risk to a 9 year old boy going to a carefully chosen public men's loo with their mother waiting outside to barrel in if they hear anything suspicious?

Oh get over yourself, they are CHILDREN 🙄

Is there any measurable risk to him going into the ladies with his mother either, to anyone?

Very little to both questions I would say.

Nah, they’re everywhere. We know this because trans women are always telling us they aren’t safe in the men’s toilets.

But you said girls shouldn't be in the toilet with boys

No, I didn't. I said males shouldn't be in female spaces.

I'm talking about a toilet for children. Not just boys. For any child who doesn't want/isn't allowed to use the main bathroom for their sex. Fathers out with their daughters, mothers out with their sons. Disabled people campaigned to get accessible toilets. Why can't parents do the same for vulnerable children? Surely that would be maximising dignity and safety for everyone.

Can't see anyone saying boy's needs trump girl's needs. What I can see is other people agreeing that keeping children safe, whether they be male or female, is important. And to this end it will sometimes be necessary, when no other options exist, to escort a male child into a female loo.