To think boys shouldn’t go in to men’s toilets???

[Scotlandma]

This is hypothetical I seen another post about someone not letting their 9 year old use mens public bathrooms

what age do other people let their children go in to toilets on their own?

and how do you navigate them using the disabled toilets if not?? I’d be so worried in case someone actually disabled needed them

I think of all prepubescent children as small, or rather, young. Biological age is not a good indicator. Parents have to safeguard against risk, however small, and make the best decision based on the individual child's needs, maturity level and other relevant factors.

It's not ideal obviously, for boys of any age to use a female facility, but boys' safety is just as important as girls' safety and so if using the female loo (accompanied by their mother or other female carer) helps keep them safe, then that is the best option in my view.

But you misquote me, to conveniently ignore the last part of my sentence which read "I'm fine to 'budge up' in the loo, if it's the best way to keep children safe from adult sexual predators".

And you ignore my point, which is that you might be fine to budge up, but young girls might not be. They are the people most likely to be made uncomfortable by boys in women's toilets, but nobody is asking them and their point of view is ignored.

@CeliaNorth Yup. I was that young girl, I was actually assaulted. I’ve commented about this on the thread as have others, and yet posters continue to insist that boys’ safety is just as important as girls’, that boys are innocent and pose no danger, or that girls are collateral damage because they’re assaulted less than boys are.

Essentially it’s spaces for men and spaces for boys (and any girls prepared to take the risk).

It’s so fucking depressing.

boys’ safety is just as important as girls

It is.

And it's not a competition. Nobody should be at risk of being abused, but unfortunately it happens. We just have to do what we can as parents to limit the risk.

It's not about comfort, it's about safety.

@CellophaneFlower For boy mums that means using a space not for the child. For girl mums that means not using the space at all, despite it being for the child. That’s the difference.

My DS6 uses the mens loos when we're out and about. But of course, we're generally in "family friendly/kid spaces" when he does. If it was somewhere less kid-friendly, like a pub, a restaurant, a service station, he comes in the ladies with me if his dad isn't there to take him.

8 and above they should use the gents. Women's spaces are for women.

Boys' safety is as important as girls', or do you not think so?

You seem to be suggesting, by referring to what happened to you personally, that all boys are to blame and somehow 'guilty' (you refer to boys not being innocent, like girls apparently are) and that as a result, mothers of boys should disregard their safeguarding responsibilities towards their male children.

Not happening on my watch. I have a duty to keep my male children safe.

I have a duty to keep my male children safe.

You also have a duty to teach your male children that females and female spaces should be respected.

But surely we all want what's safest for the children despite what sex they are?

In your situation there were 2 mums who should have been supervising their children. My 2 are closely monitored by me in such a situation. It's understandable you feel strongly about this after what you went through but it's not ok to disregard the greater potential of it happening to a boy who will be ALONE in the situation, no mums about to stand up for them.

Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water. Yes, womens spaces are for women. And girls. But yes, we do have to keep our male children safe as well.

Small boys are fine in womens spaces. Obviously there is a cut off as to when that is no longer acceptable, but its not one everyone will agree with, and its not exactly simple.

Opposite I guess but I have a sister 20 years younger than me and my husband took her out for the day when she was around 8 and had a total panic when she said she needed the loo. Did he take her into the gross men's with him where there was one blocked up toilet in a cubicle or let her go in the ladies alone (she was scared to lock the door alone) or accompany her into the ladies...in the end she went in the disabled and he stood outside the door so she didn't have to lock it

All the dodgy men are in the women’s toilets pretending to be women not in the men’s..

Yes, I agree, but I don't see the two things as incongruent.

Can someone produce some actual statistics on sudden assaults of boys by strangers in male toilets? How common is this, exactly?

We know it happens. Could you tell us what number would be acceptable?

Where and when, specifically, has it happened? It's entirely appropriate to gauge the likelihood of an adverse event occurring when you're gauging risk.

Puberty starts in boys from 9, no one seems to be objecting to boys under that age in women’s toilets. And it is the signs of puberty that make women realise that a boy is perhaps too old to be in the toilet. So no, I don’t think we are talking about young boys, even by your definition.

I don’t disagree there is a need to keep children safe. I think one of the key questions is how much risk is there in boys using the toilets on their own. And if it’s an unacceptable risk - why on earth aren’t we raising a stink about it? If you really think your son can’t use appropriate public toilets because it’s too dangerous, surely we should be campaigning about this? Because that’s atrocious.

I'm sure you have google the same as me, but ok
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/nation-world/national/article238130274.html
https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-07-21/eight-year-old-boy-sexually-assaulted-in-shopping-centre-toilets
https://www.sundayworld.com/news/northern-ireland-news/on-the-run-paedo-who-attacked-boy-8-in-bowling-alley-toilet-faces-stint-in-irish-jail/1958236320.html
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/shameless-and-cruel-dj-raped-three-year-old-boy-toilets-yorkshire-working-mens-club-221654
https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-crime-boy-sexually-abused-in-bathroom-mcdonalds/12150803/
http://edition.cnn.com/US/9811/16/boy.killed.02/

I could keep going, and going, and going.

For boy mums that means using a space not for the child. For girl mums that means not using the space at all, despite it being for the child. That’s the difference.

In which case if a mum and girl didn’t want to use the toilet while a mum and boy were in there then they could have the option of waiting until mum and boy had finished and then go in. Most mums would understand. For many mums sending their boys alone into some male toilets is not an option at all. So it’s not ideal but if it means keeping their child safer then it’s the least bad of two options.

But a lot of people appear to have lost the ability to sensibly risk assess and instead help breed a culture telling people they aren’t safe in a situation where actually statistically the risk is going to be very small - much smaller than the risk in many other things they do without issue.

you can acknowledge the risk sensibly. Teach children what to do when approached by a stranger etc without making them scared to go for a wee!

"Going to ask again. Why can't women escort their sons into the men's toilets?"

Because it works both ways. If women don't want to see men in the women's room then men should be entitled not to have adult females come into the men's room and possibly see them using a urinal. Adults are entitled to privacy from opposite sex adults.

I think this is what mothers of boys are already sensibly doing. Assessing the risks and determining the best course of action. For some mothers this will mean sending their young sons into the adult men's loo, and for others it will mean escorting them into the female facility. It's a decision based on the child's needs, maturity level and any other relevant factors at the time.

Lots of women saying they can't go in the men's toilets with their sons because men also need privacy and space away from the female gaze.

My argument is that surely if you're in there with a boy, men will understand that it's a one off and their needs come behind keeping the child safe this once.

Why is it unthinkable for an adult woman to enter men's toilets with her 9/10/11 year old son, but pearl clutching for girls and women to mind a 10 year old boy with his mum in an intimate space?

Boils down to we know that no matter how uncomfortable women and girls are, they have been socialised to shut up, whereas men will say something (see bud light v tampax Dylan responses) or women know they can't justify their actions if challenged.