To think boys shouldn’t go in to men’s toilets???

[Scotlandma]

This is hypothetical I seen another post about someone not letting their 9 year old use mens public bathrooms

what age do other people let their children go in to toilets on their own?

and how do you navigate them using the disabled toilets if not?? I’d be so worried in case someone actually disabled needed them

From horrific bitter experience of a family member being seriously sexually assaulted by a stranger as a child in a male toilet, this is a very sore point.

For the older child (8,9,10,11) someone goes with them or waits outside the men’s loo.
little kids go with an adult in either sex loo.

It’s protection and preventing a horrific incident impacting a lifetime for that child and those people around them. Believe me, our whole family have been very badly affected by what happened and for many years after the event.

It's a difficult one. I have a DS and he was 9 or 10 before I started letting him go into the mens alone, and I'd always wait outside.

We also had in local news a poor young teen boy got raped in the men's toilets.

Sadly, this is not rare (sexual assaults by men). My 9 year old will use a male toilet in shops etc but I will stand outside and loudly tell him I'm right there waiting, shout if he has trouble.

@Goldbar "Men's comfort is really the least important issue here. People of either sex don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy from very small children of the opposite sex."

Is there really a reason to? Small children are nonsexual and can't really infringe on privacy like adults or older children.

I used to take my DS's into the ladies, or a quick nip into the disabled when no one was around. Later I would wait right outside the men's and even go in there if he was taking too long.

I wouldn't be annoyed at a mother bringing her son into the ladies, because I've been there.

There are many, many aggressive men in the UK, and we do seem to have more than our fair share of sexual predators and general male weirdos, so I don't care what anyone thinks of my paranoia.

Mine is 10 and has been using mens loos alone since 8 or so.

If it's somewhere transient like motorway services I wait outside, if it's cafe or something I send him off.

No issues.

Thanks all for your thoughts on the point use of disabled toilets by those with other accessibility needs.

One problem seems to be that there are usually only three types of toilet, male, female, and those with better accessibility, and as shown in this thread there are many exceptions when something different is needed ie being a Dad with young girls or a Mum with young boys, or a parent with a pram who needs the toilet themselves, or an adult who needs enough space in the bathroom for a carer to assist them in the bathroom.

In my case the larger disabled toilet is often the only one that can fit in a pram. So when I need to go to the toilet myself (not change my child) it is a good option to having an accident or finding a bush.

I suppose my point is that there is no one size fits all, common sense should prevail, with of course priority given to the group that a particular toilet was designed for. Oh and if people could leave the toilet clean that would be great too - though another thread I think 😉

We started leaving the boys to go in by themselves at 6/7 with DH going in to check if they weren’t back in 5 minutes. But as with others we judge on situation. I’d be much more cautious abroad.

The fact is, 99pc of men are normal and not predatory. And yes some toilets smell but they are generally not going to one in a boxing gym! It’s just part of life.

I hate these threads which imply that all men are potential perverts in long raincoats…

People aren't saying all men are potential perverts but rapes and sexual assaults do sometimes happen to children and young boys in toilets, even if unlikely. Surely you've heard about these on the news? Wanting to protect your children isn't being paranoid.

I hate these threads which imply that all men are potential perverts in long raincoats…

It is actually my dad, and my brothers that instilled this fear into me. I once let my 11-year-old go to the pub loo on his own and my dad went ballistic. He is adamant that I never let them go alone. He will actually get up and go with them, even as teens.

He must have seen some dodgy stuff.

All these predators you're trying to protect your sons from were once little boys too. Rapists and perverts don't hatch from eggs. How do you know your insistence on taking older boys into female toilets and changing rooms, where they don't belong, doesn't contribute to their disregard and sense of entitlement as adults over women and women's spaces?

I don't think taking an 8 year old into a women's toilet is going to contribute turning them into a predator

Prams can be left outside, just pop baby in a sling

I don't think anyone thinks that all men are perverts or predatory. Of course it's a tiny minority. But do we just shrug and say that the handful of women who get attacked are just collateral? Did they not have the right to be safe too?

If I walk home late at night through a dark, isolated park the chances are that I'll be absolutely fine. But because there is a minority of predatory, dangerous men it's a risky situation that's not particularly advisable.

The same rationale applies to toilets. Men/males have attacked women in all kinds of single sex spaces including toilets and bathrooms - I'm assuming you know about the teenage boy who sodomised and sexually assaulted a teenage girl in the girls' toilets?

There is a reason that single sex exemptions exist in law, and there's a reason that single sex spaces were originally created. Those reasons haven't gone away. Men in women's spaces is an issue - and the controversy around this right now means it's more problematic than ever for younger boys who are only just on the threshold of independence.

And just as an aside, it's not just safety - there are women of some faiths who can't be in the same bathroom as males. Men in toilets causes issues for these women - why should they be effectively chased away from their own space?

I dont mind boys being in the ladies if their mum is there too, too many wierdos out there these days keep your kids close.

Of course male children should be able to use a male bathroom. So fucking sick of people expecting women to make way for males, whether they’re blooming 10 or trans they belong in the male sexed space.

Why not? They know those toilets are for females only. They know they are not female. So they must be more important than females then.

And for young girls, they'll learn that "females only" means nothing.

Does that mean that adult men should be allowed in the ladies toilets then because 99% of them aren't predators?

What's the age cut off though? 10 is too old but a 4 or 5 year old boy?

So women's toilets are now for

1. Women and girls
2. People who identify as women or girls or while they're in girl mode
3. Boys until their parent feels they're able to use the men's safely

We could actually get rid of most of the men's toilets because the numbers using them will be so insignificant compared to the women's toilets. Or make the vast majority of toilets gender neutral with floor to ceiling doors on cubicles. Anything to make the queue for the ladies a bit shorter.

There would still probably have to be a set of ladies loos for use and disposal of period products, but maybe parents of older boys would accept that they can generally use gender neutral toilets on their own or accompanied by a parent of either sex.

A gender neutral toilet alongside a men's and women's toilet would probably be the easiest solution. Women only spaces are important, but young boys need to be safe too.

Of course you shouldn't. Most people leave the pram outside. Maybe campaign for toilets in baby changing spaces?

I’m pretty sure my boys were about 8 when I let them go in the men’s toilets on their own… I think it depends where and what those toilets look like . In a busy shopping centre, where they are being used constantly I would have less qualms, but I would stand outside and say loudly that I’m right outside! If they were dilapidated, say, in a park or remote car park… I may just have a quick look in and stand right outside.
Id feel the same about the Ladies, for my daughter though. Luckily they are all grown up now.
Imagine how we feel as school staff when we have to take children to public toilets! Infant school age boys are sometimes taken into the ladies, but junior age will go in the men’s. With (often) a female member of staff on the door. It mostly scares members of the public off, but we can’t stop them using the toilets, so we have to be discreet as well…. nightmare! Then you always get that one child, when you’re all miles from a toilet that then decides they need to go and you have to leave your group and walk all the way back with them…

I wouldn’t have an issue if I see a 8 years old boy in the women toilets and as a mother I may wait outside and explain if any issue arises, I believe most women would understand
Too many weirdos to take the chance in the men toilets

How does starting them young help? Can you train them not to be abused? 🤔

I've seen this mentioned on here before and never quite understood. A dodgy encounter doesn't happen till does and it's too late. Starting them young isn't going to make it less likely, you're just increasing the chances of it happening.