Page 23 | To wish people would stop saying 'Jesus' all the bloody time

Mycathatesmecuddling · 26/04/2023 12:30

SpeedSnap · 26/04/2023 11:38

You can legally crack on with secular progress, changing laws on polygamy and multiple people listed as parents on a birth certificate of motherless surrogate babies.

Wasn't Mary the first surrogate mother? And Jesus had both Joseph and God as his fathers.

SpeedSnap · 26/04/2023 12:31

This “fall” consists in the free choice of these created spirits, who radically and irrevocably rejected God and his reign.

I believe we were given free will, if people want to throw Christ out of his own church then that is on them. If they want to make up their own narcissistic religion pretending it's Christian, crack on.

From what I understand, he has more time for someone taking his name in vein and denying him like St Peter, than the luke warm, I understand he spits them out

SpeedSnap · 26/04/2023 12:36

Mycathatesmecuddling · 26/04/2023 12:30

Wasn't Mary the first surrogate mother? And Jesus had both Joseph and God as his fathers.

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A Handmaid brought up her son and watched him die, some believe she was an immaculate conception inisde St Anne.

There is no law that says you have to believe it, you can laugh or walk away shaking your head and carry on living your life, as it's legal for others to have this world view.

drawingmaps · 26/04/2023 12:40

SpeedSnap · 26/04/2023 01:35

The LGBTQ community is over represented in the Vatican, for about 2/5% of the population globally, there are the majority running the Catholic church, so you would be punching your own community, which is a strange thing to do.

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/12/four-in-five-vatican-priests-are-gay-book-claims

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If that is true, I feel very very sorry for them. That they hate themselves so much that they have entered the top of a religion that hurts people like them.
The Vatican recently interfered in an equality bill in Italy as well. Mainly because it gave some protection to lgbtq people, but it also had protections for disabled people that were equally overturned. They are so full of hate that they will even go against protections for disabled people, who I think many would agree are objectively vulnerable members of society.
However, I've seen from your other posts on this thread that you propose a very narrow and hateful version of Christianity. You would probably really dislike my church. You might even say it's not really Christian. But it's not on you to decide that. You don't have ultimate authority, and neither does any one church or person on earth. To me, God commanded me to love my neighbour as myself, and that is what I will continue to do.

OMG12 · 26/04/2023 12:41

If anyone fancies having a look at what it means to live in a world where Christianity reigns supreme, where man insists he is correct in the interpretation of the Bible, let’s have a quick look at how they get upset about the detail - I give you the Albegensian crusades - kill them all God will know his own

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

Albigensian Crusade - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

Leftoverssandwich · 26/04/2023 12:41

nopuppiesallowed · 26/04/2023 10:59

One of the things I love about Mumsnet is the support given to and by other posters. Marriage problems? Some say leave your husband. Some say stay with him. Don't remember reading any unkind, thoughtless or rude advice or comments. Telling someone else's child off for continuously spitting on the street? Some agree with it. Some don't. Again - pretty respectful posts from all and sundry. But anyone posting on Christianity? Oh my goodness. The vitriol! Someone has met a Christian who is a hypocrite? That means all Christians are hypocrites. You've met someone who calls themselves Christian but ...(add any sin you want to, here) so all Christians are child abusers, thieves etc. But does any of this actually make sense? I've met plenty of atheists who are hypocritical etc but that doesn't mean to say I think all atheists are hypocrites or bad people. And it definitely shouldn't mean that I leap on them from a great height, either. We are all human - Atheists and Christians. Christians, people who follow other religions and Atheists do wrong things all the time. We are human. That's what humans do. We sin. Me, you, everyone. We are all hypocrites on occasions. Me. You. All of us. The only difference I can see is that one group of us wants to follow Jesus. And doing that means that there should be a huge, vitriolic pile on by some Mumsnetters? Wow...
And don't assume all Christians are uneducated morons. If we are, I'd pull your kids out of school right now - because lots of teachers are quiet Christians. Doctors? Im my friendship group I count a paediatric surgeon and a specialist in geriatric medicine. My husband is an Oxford educated mathematician. I used to know a Christian rocket scientist (yes, really). Christians are everywhere. Of course, there are highly educated and intelligent Atheists. We're all part of the human race. I'm saying this to everyone - me included. Do I really want to be dismissive, rude or vitriolic to anyone just because of their beliefs? Do you?

I’m not sure how widely you read Mumsnet but posters can start a vitriolic pile on over the consumption of ready salted v roasted peanuts.

Religion is notoriously controversial as a subject of discussion anywhere, let alone on MN. It’s presence in society has an effect on everyone, believer or not. We all have a stake.

Gtsr443 · 26/04/2023 12:42

My best friend is a gay man with a penchant for men of the cloth.
He's had more priests that he's met on Grindr than I've had hot dinners.

Mycathatesmecuddling · 26/04/2023 12:43

SpeedSnap · 26/04/2023 12:36

A Handmaid brought up her son and watched him die, some believe she was an immaculate conception inisde St Anne.

There is no law that says you have to believe it, you can laugh or walk away shaking your head and carry on living your life, as it's legal for others to have this world view.

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It's also legal and okay for people to have different opinions and yet you still call them ignorant and narcissists

The fact that you are insulting whole swathes of secular and Christian society if it doesn't dovetail with your exact view, whilst making out that your way of living as a Christian is better than those of us who belong to narcissistic religions doesn't lead me to believe you are living a better Christian life than others on this thread. Or that you are superior to those cracking on with their secular lives.

Emmmie · 26/04/2023 12:44

ferneytorro if you said:" Oh my God!" in front of me it would never occur to me that you are envoking any other deity but your own or that you are maybe saying it out of habit without actually believing in God.

Even if you said Oh Allah, I found maybe find it a bit curious but I wouldn't think anything bad of it. Afterall, who am I to decide who can say Oh Allah and who cannot and in my eyes you would not be insulting in the slightest. However, I am not a Christian so I really don't understand how saying "Oh my God" is a swear word.

Seas164 · 26/04/2023 12:45

Agreed @monsteramunch

It makes zero sense

organised religion is the opposite of sense.

MinervaSaidThar · 26/04/2023 12:46

Seas164 · 26/04/2023 12:15

@MinervaSaidThar

You absolutely are holding her to higher standards. She is not answerable to you and your interpretation as an atheist. You don't get to have an opinion on someone's observance of their own religion insofar as it doesn't affect you.

Can you just take a little step back for a minute and see that this doesn't make any sense? I can understand that it must be unsettling when your faith and beliefs are challenged, but this really doesn't stack up does it?

OP is asking people to not do what she admits to doing, because she finds it offensive. It's the very definition of holding others to higher standards than you can acheive yourself, surely?

Cam you just take a little step back for a minute and see that you were responding to @SpeedSnap not the OP?

Is this your standard MO, respond to one poster, and then when challenged, pretend you were talking about another poster?

MinervaSaidThar · 26/04/2023 12:48

monsteramunch · 26/04/2023 12:26

You absolutely are holding her to higher standards.

You don't seem to understand that I'm asking her about her standards, which is not the same as holding her to mine.

Let's take another example of this. If a man believes women should do all the cooking, cleaning and childcare and says that's because he's 'traditional' but expects his partner to work full time, has sex with her despite not being married and doesn't ever want to get married, does that mean I can't call him a sexist hypocrite for picking and choosing which 'traditions' he supports? Do I have to agree with him that women should do all the cooking, cleaning and childcare before I'm allowed to point out the hypocrisy?

She is not answerable to you and your interpretation as an atheist. You don't get to have an opinion on someone's observance of their own religion insofar as it doesn't affect you.

What an odd and again hypocritical stance to take in defence of posters who believe that their observance of her own religion should directly control the language of other people who don't share their beliefs.

So atheists can't have an opinion on Christians observing their beliefs, but Christians can have an opinion on atheists observing their beliefs? Does that really make sense to you?

I believe OP and others who share her beliefs absolutely have the right to their opinion, it just differs from mine and I also find their opinion hypocritical. I have the right to that opinion.

I believe religious people who don't believe in gay marriage have the right to that opinion. I personally find it homophobic and wrong, but they have the right to believe it.

You have just outright said you don't believe I should even 'get to have an opinion' on someone else's beliefs if I don't agree with those beliefs. It makes zero sense and is very controlling and entitled as a point of view.

Why are you acting as if I was responding to you, and not @Seas164 ?

What on earth is going on here, are all the Atheists the same person? 😂

MinervaSaidThar · 26/04/2023 12:49

@Seas164

I can understand that it must be unsettling when your faith and beliefs are challenged, but this really doesn't stack up does it?

Er, I'm not Christian, love 😂

WinterofOurDiscountTentz · 26/04/2023 12:50

Sortyourlifeout · 25/04/2023 20:19

I can't read a thread on here without someone saying "Jesus Christ" or "Jesus wept" or similar.

I'm not a prude AT all and I have no issue with people swearing but as a Christian I find it highly offensive when people throw Jesus' name round in a negative way, without a thought for others' feelings and religions.

Most people wouldn't dream of using words that were offensive to other religions so why is it acceptable when it's 'Jesus?'.

This is a genuine message to ask people to PLEASE think before they post/speak.

You can't have your religion have a massive influence and control over a society for a millennia and then complain when it leaves some remnants behind in its death throes.

We'll continue to say Jesus as often as we like. Your churches forced us all too for long enough!

MinervaSaidThar · 26/04/2023 12:51

@monsteramunch

So atheists can't have an opinion on Christians observing their beliefs, but Christians can have an opinion on atheists observing their beliefs? Does that really make sense to you?

Where did I say Christians can have an opinion on atheists observing their beliefs?

Why do you imagine anyone cares what you believe? 😴

OMG12 · 26/04/2023 12:53

Seas164 · 26/04/2023 12:45

Agreed @monsteramunch

It makes zero sense

organised religion is the opposite of sense.

Actually organised religion makes a lot of sense, in fact I would say it’s probably the most rational structure for its purpose. Unfortunately it necessitates evoking and invoking a supernatural element that purposefully leads to people being confused about the goals of religion.

organised religion is the antithesis of spirituality

HeadbandOverMyEyes · 26/04/2023 12:54

MinervaSaidThar · 26/04/2023 12:51

@monsteramunch

So atheists can't have an opinion on Christians observing their beliefs, but Christians can have an opinion on atheists observing their beliefs? Does that really make sense to you?

Where did I say Christians can have an opinion on atheists observing their beliefs?

Why do you imagine anyone cares what you believe? 😴

Isn't that the topic of the thread?

Seas164 · 26/04/2023 12:56

@OMG12 yes, you're right. It's the supernatural element that causes the mass confusions.

MinervaSaidThar · 26/04/2023 12:56

HeadbandOverMyEyes · 26/04/2023 12:54

Isn't that the topic of the thread?

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That poster is specifically accusing me of saying Christians can have an opinion on atheists observing their beliefs, when I've never said that.

Mycathatesmecuddling · 26/04/2023 12:57

MinervaSaidThar · 26/04/2023 12:48

Why are you acting as if I was responding to you, and not @Seas164 ?

What on earth is going on here, are all the Atheists the same person? 😂

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because the quotes she was responding to were in response to your post to @monsteramunch

*MinervaSaidThar · Today 12:09

monsteramunch · Today 12:01

@MinervaSaidThar

You can't simultaneously say religion is a lie and then hold Christians to higher standards.

Luckily, that isn't what I'm doing.

I'm asking why someone Christian doesn't hold themself to the standards they claim to believe in.

Take OP. She believes that to say 'Jesus Christ' / 'oh my god' etc is wrong. I don't believe it's wrong. I can point out the hypocrisy in her judging others (who don't believe) for using those phrases when she (who does believe) admits to using one of them and has done so elsewhere on the site. Im not required to agree with her that the phrases concept are wrong in order to point out that hypocrisy.*

This is the bit she is responding to, that's your post to her (I'm assuming the poster js a woman)

You absolutely are holding her to higher standards. She is not answerable to you and your interpretation as an atheist. You don't get to have an opinion on someone's observance of their own religion insofar as it doesn't affect you.

Seas164 · 26/04/2023 13:00

@MinervaSaidThar

Why do you imagine anyone cares what you believe? 😴

Might that be an appropriate response to the OPs initial plea?

Seas164 · 26/04/2023 13:01

Or not, because her religious beliefs are more important than someone's atheist beliefs?

MinervaSaidThar · 26/04/2023 13:02

Mycathatesmecuddling · 26/04/2023 12:57

because the quotes she was responding to were in response to your post to @monsteramunch

*MinervaSaidThar · Today 12:09

monsteramunch · Today 12:01

@MinervaSaidThar

You can't simultaneously say religion is a lie and then hold Christians to higher standards.

Luckily, that isn't what I'm doing.

I'm asking why someone Christian doesn't hold themself to the standards they claim to believe in.

Take OP. She believes that to say 'Jesus Christ' / 'oh my god' etc is wrong. I don't believe it's wrong. I can point out the hypocrisy in her judging others (who don't believe) for using those phrases when she (who does believe) admits to using one of them and has done so elsewhere on the site. Im not required to agree with her that the phrases concept are wrong in order to point out that hypocrisy.*

This is the bit she is responding to, that's your post to her (I'm assuming the poster js a woman)

You absolutely are holding her to higher standards. She is not answerable to you and your interpretation as an atheist. You don't get to have an opinion on someone's observance of their own religion insofar as it doesn't affect you.

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Thanks, I was referring to @monsteramunch 's post to @SpeedSnap . I think @Seas164 quoting an excerpt caused confusion.

MinervaSaidThar · 26/04/2023 13:02

Seas164 · 26/04/2023 13:00

@MinervaSaidThar

Why do you imagine anyone cares what you believe? 😴

Might that be an appropriate response to the OPs initial plea?

I think that response has been made on this thread - ad nauseam!

monsteramunch · 26/04/2023 13:03

@MinervaSaidThar

Why are you acting as if I was responding to you, and not seas164

Because you were... see the picture.

Hopefully you can just acknowledge you were wrong on this one. You absolutely responded directly to me and I responded directly too.

To wish people would stop saying 'Jesus' all the bloody time