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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!

489 replies

bathroomwindowargh · 25/04/2023 11:53

So much of this is tedious backstory, but better to contextualise and not drip feed, so here we go. Also I’d prob be wise to change details but on the other hand I can barely get my head round it myself so this is all straight facts. Name changed though!
We live in a weird house, and when I moved in with now DH 15 years ago, as part of a revamp we built a new bathroom in part of the existing garage, bathroom had no window. The back wall of our house and garage and therefore the outer wall of the bathroom is a wall in someone else’s garden. I know I’m gonna have to add a diagram and I will!
The someone else was an elderly neighbour who I really loved and visited a lot, but she died a couple of years ago, and the house was empty for a bit.
This just happened to coincide with us re-doing the bathroom and DH thought it was a chance to put a window in. He didn’t put one in first time round because we asked elderly neighbour’s late DH and he said no, so fair enough we didn’t push it. But this time DH thought the timing meant he could get away with it. I was a bit unsure but he basically just went ahead.
In the process he a) informed the son of late elderly woman that window was happening and could he please tell any buyers.
b) informed the estate agents to please tell any buyers.
c) got planning permission.

Basically he kept in touch with son and EA so we thought all good. Window finished. New neighbours moved in. A couple in their 30s, new to the village (yes we live in a village, so it's rural). The bloke hit the roof at the window, and claims no one told him, but we have our suspicions that he might be telling porkies.
Now the window cannot be seen at all from their house (I know this for a fact because I spent plenty time in their house visiting elderly friend, and I’m well aware what parts of the garden are visible from the house and what are not). This wall is not. It’s not a large window it’s a wide but shallow window from top to bottom window and the glass is not remotely see through, proper obscured glass. But the bloke hates it and is obviously very pissed off.
I have some sympathy for this to be honest, I did think DH was chancing it building the window while the house was empty, even though he played it all by the book.

Now to the meat. Since they moved in bloke and DH are at loggerheads but managing to be sort of surface polite, bloke came round and discussed it with DH and DH agreed to a window limiter so window would only open a couple of inches. Not happy but agreed. I was away so I haven’t met them.
However – DH says bloke was subtly threatening and bullying, and since we agreed to window limiter bloke has put both a shed overlapping one end of the window, a trellis right up almost touching and – worst and most aggressive – a piece of wood against the outside of the window so that effectively we can’t open it all all, not even a centimetre. DH very upset. It does feel like a bullying act of aggression, especially given we agreed to limit the window from our side, and it means we can’t clean the outside of the window by opening it and with the trellis etc DH thinks it’s going to get quickly fouled up with trapped leaves.
Meanwhile the pretence at being civilised carries on apace and DH, who bumps into the bloke fairly regularly (I never seem to see them but I’m away a lot) has invited them both round for coffee and to see the bathroom, to which they’ve just replied they’ll get back to us with times.
DH wants civility to prevail and wants me to re-open the question of a window limiter and could he please kindly remove his fucking aggressive stick from our window (my words, I’m getting angry writing this).

My problem is I’m a post-menopausal harpy and I feel only capable of two modes with this. 1. Play dumb and nice but not get involved. 2. Give it to bloke with all barrels, tell him what I think of his piece of wood and call him out for bullying DH. DH is a totally non-macho pussycat by the way and probably mildly autistic, hence walking into this by blithely building his bloody window.
I could do without ANY of it! By the way there are no other windows on the back of our house except three roof skylights in the upstairs living room.

Help – what should I do? I’ve been putting off even thinking about it but it’s now upon us – the civilised visit – and I’m going to have to meet these people and say something. But what? AIBU to want to fight the bully?
Sorry so long. Really didn’t want to drip feed.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!
OP posts:
mistlethrush · 25/04/2023 14:31

Is your garage wall the boundary between your two gardens (ie does the face of the wall abut the boundary) of is it like my garage and set back about a foot from the boundary which leaves enough room for the overhang of the garage roof and squeezing behind it for maintenance. If the former, I would think yabu as you would be opening the window into their property. However, if the latter, he is bu and shouldn't have put anything beyond the boundary - in which case you should be able to open the window. This wouldn't stop him putting up a long shed there of course as long as it didn't go over the boundary.

EggInANest · 25/04/2023 14:32

SofiaSoFar · 25/04/2023 13:48

@EggInANest It all comes down to the planning permission.

It doesn't.

No matter what the planning permission says, it can never, ever give OP rights over someone else's property.

If the window opens over the boundary, the neighbour has every right to object to and prevent that happening.

Planning permission does not redraw boundaries!

Hence the rest of my post.

But the presence of the window does come down to PP.

If they have it: fine, nothing the neighbour can do about the window.

BUT the OP has no right at all to an opening window over the neighbour's land. As I said.

Hairpinleg · 25/04/2023 14:32

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 13:34

Did you really get planning permission, op?!
Your wording is a bit strange - you asked neighbour, they said no. Then neighbour changes so you "thought you'd get away with it".

I wondered that too. The OP talks about chancing their arm doing it and it seems very coincidental that the neighbour had such a bad solicitor that they didn't find this new planning application in the searches.

Either way, it's unfair that the neighbour viewed and agreed to buy the property when their was no window and his CF neighbours stuck one in before he moved in, substantially reducing the value of his property and ability to enjoy the garden. I think the OP has it the wrong way around to call the neighbour 'bullying'.

SofiaSoFar · 25/04/2023 14:32

Legally the permission was there.

For the 3rd time in this thread, planning permission does not redraw boundaries and cannot ever give OP permission to have a window opening over the boundary line.

ohnonowwhat · 25/04/2023 14:33

SliceOfCakeCupOfTea · 25/04/2023 14:23

If it's any consolation OP, I don't think you deserve the anger or name calling you're getting here.

It sounds like your DH did something in the sneakiest way he could to benefit you both. No I don't think what he did was right, but he wasn't doing it to piss the neighbours off, was he? He obviously did it to improve your own home. He's got it massively wrong and it is a costly mistake. But still doesn't warrant the abuse on here.

Secondly, I really don't like it when people go against their words. Don't bother agreeing to something and then going against it...just be honest FFS.
The guy agreed to a limiter on the window and then proceeded to block it up making it impossible to open. Why agree in the first place? Your DH said he was being threatening...not on. Don't threaten. Don't agree to things when you have no intention of letting it happen. Don't fob people off.

I fully get why he's pissed off but he should have said that he had a problem with the window and the fact it opens into his property and he was going to take legal action if not rectified or you reached an agreement and stuck to it.

I think the reaction may have something to do with her calling them the nasty neighbour and accusing them of being bullies because they have (totally legally) obscured a window that she acknowledges was put in sneakily. And now she wants us all to feel sorry for her poor DH because he's been caught out and he maybe might be possibly a bit autistic maybe...? And now she wants us to help them get away with their bad behaviour! Many of us have possibly come up against neighbours like her and her beloved DH and we know exactly what it's like to be the other side of the story. They did a shady thing and they need to acknowledge that and pay the price, they're the nasty neighbours in this saga.

LivingTheDreamNow · 25/04/2023 14:34

When planning permission is given it does consider things like opaque glass and how the window opens. (I’ve recently been through this with the building project of flats overlooking other nearby houses)

If the window was close to the neighbours house it might be a problem but it isn’t close to the house. It’s also quite high so a lawnmower hitting it is pretty unlikely.
As a previous poster said you have planning permission, it was up to the buyer to beware and he should have checked this out with his solicitor.

The neighbour is being very passive/aggressive and personally I would send a solicitors letter saying that he’s out of order. Surely opening the window a couple of inches for ventilation is no big deal?

Neighbours are being aggressive blocking the window with the stick.
I suppose if he wants to put trellis up for plants then that’s going to be a bit tricky.

Wasn’t cleaning the outside of the window always going to be awkward unless you do it from your bathroom roof hanging over into the garden and doing it with a long brush?

Namethischange · 25/04/2023 14:34

I don't see there is anything you can do. Planning have approved the window, but that doesn't stop your neighbour putting fencing, trellis and whatever he likes on the boundary of his land. The only purpose I can see to this meet up that is planned is that maybe you can all agree to draw a line under the situation and not mention or react to it again. Which would be a good outcome, if everything else is fine then it's really worth avoiding some sort of war with the next door neighbours.

AliceOlive · 25/04/2023 14:35

Was this done before they viewed and bought the house? If so I do not understand how they can be upset.

I would try to find out exactly what they are upset about. And make nice. If they are worried you are going to climb out your window and into their garden, being friendly will help.
Don't worry about the big board, it won't be there forever. If they don't like looking at your window, most certainly they will get tired of looking at this board.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 25/04/2023 14:37

skyfalldown · 25/04/2023 14:29

I feel like I'm going mad here because I genuinely cannot comprehend his issue, and I don't understand people saying he's in the right. He's just moved into a new property, a big life change and is getting upset at his new neighbours who he'll be living beside for years about... a window? far away from his house? that nobody can even see into/out of?

some people have too much time on their hands

It opens

over his land

allowing noise & smells to be experienced while he's in his garden

allowing people to see into his garden

allowing him to see into their bathroom

Do you get it yet?

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 25/04/2023 14:37

I know you said it's expensive but can you replace the window with an inward-opening, or one of those that slide side-to-side, so at least you can get some air flow?

The neighbours must be real assholes. It's not as though the window is staring into their living quarters.

malapast · 25/04/2023 14:37

Tunaormayo74 · 25/04/2023 13:17

If the neighbour does not act decisively now, what seems minor could lead to claims over his garden in the longer term.

The neighbour should block it otherwise his rights will be eroded each year that passes.

Exactly - left uncontested it could potentially affect their ability to develop unrestricted that area near the window. Put it back to what it was and prevent a neighbour dispute that could affect a sale down the line.

WhatAmIDoingWrong123 · 25/04/2023 14:38

I don’t think your husband is being bullied. I think your husband was a sneak and did something fairly unpleasant himself and now he’s on the receiving end of a consequence to his behaviour.

I wouldn’t want someone’s bathroom window looking into my garden regardless of how obscure the glass is or how limited the opening inwards is, it is just a little bit minty isn’t it.

I wouldn’t think twice about putting a fence up as close to the window as I could get one so I’d keep the space in my garden and my privacy.

BoogieBoogieWoogie · 25/04/2023 14:38

The neighbour may have plans to build a summer house / hot tub area / bar area / seating area / ..... or anything else allowable down there and this window could easily scupper their plans.

YABU

EggInANest · 25/04/2023 14:38

If the OP has PP I don't see what was 'sneaky'?

Anyone has a right to apply for PP. Any owner, whether as a result of probate or a new buyer, has responsibility to keep tabs on what is going on. The OP said they did apply for PP, and did tell the EA to tell buyers.

In applying for PP for a window, what has the OP done wrong?

Putting in an outward opening window, if the wall is the actual boundary - not OK.

And it might be that Planning put on a constraint about a window opening at all. Did it, OP?

However - OP, does your garage / bathroom guttering overhang? Is the actual boundary the edge of such guttering, or is it the wall itself?

Seas164 · 25/04/2023 14:40

DH thought the timing meant he could get away with it. I was a bit unsure but he basically just went ahead.

Unfortunately, DH didn't get away with it and now because he's a pussycat and he wants civility to prevail he wants you to step in to make the big macho bully next door go away and leave him alone?

He needs to accept that his decision to install a window there was a bad one, and the new neighbours are as unwilling to have it there as the old ones would have been.

What he does about it is his decision, bearing in mind that a stick and a bit of trellis could be replaced with a brick wall, a fence, a garden shed or any manner of things on their property which would render your window useless, and the neighbourly relationship will continue to deteriorate.

Get your DH to put his big boy pants on and have a conversation with the neighbour and find out what the objection is. If it can't be resolved, the window needs to be removed. Either way, I'm not sure this is your mess to fix.

Rosula · 25/04/2023 14:42

Exasperatednow · 25/04/2023 12:17

If I was your neighbour I'd be annoyed. I wonder if you git planning permission because there wasn't anyone living there to object.

The executors of the previous neighbour's estate could have objected.

Rosula · 25/04/2023 14:44

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 25/04/2023 12:06

Why didn't you put a window in the ceiling? I have a windowless bathroom (middle terrace, downstairs bathroom), with a lightwell in the ceiling and I'm looking to have it replaced with a big glass window in the roof.

A window that directly looks out onto someone else's garden like this is always going to be tricky. Could you put up a fixed blind or something in the meantime?

What would a blind achieve, given that the window is obscured glass anyway?

Dustybarn · 25/04/2023 14:44

Any chance of a photo of the offending window taken from inside the bathroom? It’s a bit hard to visualize (but your diagram was fab!).

UnsureSchool32 · 25/04/2023 14:44

I would hate that window no matter how long my garden was, I’d feel uncomfortable going that end of my garden in case you were pooping, showering, having sex in the shower? I wouldn’t want to see your steam coming out. In fact it’s all really invasive. You knew it was invasive, your DH deffo did. Sorry no sympathy and I’d just leave your DH to it to be honest. He created this silly situation!

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 14:44

The only purpose I can see to this meet up that is planned is that maybe you can all agree to draw a line under the situation and not mention or react to it again
Haha! Wouldn't that be nice for op? As if 😂

MariaRemindsMeOfAWestSideStory · 25/04/2023 14:45

Still laughing at OP thinking the neighbour is nasty…CFery at it’s finest!

eurochick · 25/04/2023 14:46

I'm very surprised you got planning permission for this. But in any event, as others have said, planning permission cannot give you rights over his land so you are in the wrong to have an outward opening window there.

Doggymummar · 25/04/2023 14:48

Is it your only bathroom?

skyfalldown · 25/04/2023 14:49

ifIwerenotanandroid · 25/04/2023 14:37

It opens

over his land

allowing noise & smells to be experienced while he's in his garden

allowing people to see into his garden

allowing him to see into their bathroom

Do you get it yet?

Not really, no.

It only opens a couple of inches so no one can see in/out.

If he's that bothered he can hang out at the other end of his fuck off massive garden.

BadNomad · 25/04/2023 14:49

Think about it. A couple in their 30s might have children or are planning to have children. They won't want their children being watched by a middle-aged man standing unseen in his bathroom. It's a total invasion of privacy. They have every right to put up whatever they want in their garden. There was absolutely no need to put a window in at all. You've lived without one for so long. This was all so unnecessary.

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