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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!

489 replies

bathroomwindowargh · 25/04/2023 11:53

So much of this is tedious backstory, but better to contextualise and not drip feed, so here we go. Also I’d prob be wise to change details but on the other hand I can barely get my head round it myself so this is all straight facts. Name changed though!
We live in a weird house, and when I moved in with now DH 15 years ago, as part of a revamp we built a new bathroom in part of the existing garage, bathroom had no window. The back wall of our house and garage and therefore the outer wall of the bathroom is a wall in someone else’s garden. I know I’m gonna have to add a diagram and I will!
The someone else was an elderly neighbour who I really loved and visited a lot, but she died a couple of years ago, and the house was empty for a bit.
This just happened to coincide with us re-doing the bathroom and DH thought it was a chance to put a window in. He didn’t put one in first time round because we asked elderly neighbour’s late DH and he said no, so fair enough we didn’t push it. But this time DH thought the timing meant he could get away with it. I was a bit unsure but he basically just went ahead.
In the process he a) informed the son of late elderly woman that window was happening and could he please tell any buyers.
b) informed the estate agents to please tell any buyers.
c) got planning permission.

Basically he kept in touch with son and EA so we thought all good. Window finished. New neighbours moved in. A couple in their 30s, new to the village (yes we live in a village, so it's rural). The bloke hit the roof at the window, and claims no one told him, but we have our suspicions that he might be telling porkies.
Now the window cannot be seen at all from their house (I know this for a fact because I spent plenty time in their house visiting elderly friend, and I’m well aware what parts of the garden are visible from the house and what are not). This wall is not. It’s not a large window it’s a wide but shallow window from top to bottom window and the glass is not remotely see through, proper obscured glass. But the bloke hates it and is obviously very pissed off.
I have some sympathy for this to be honest, I did think DH was chancing it building the window while the house was empty, even though he played it all by the book.

Now to the meat. Since they moved in bloke and DH are at loggerheads but managing to be sort of surface polite, bloke came round and discussed it with DH and DH agreed to a window limiter so window would only open a couple of inches. Not happy but agreed. I was away so I haven’t met them.
However – DH says bloke was subtly threatening and bullying, and since we agreed to window limiter bloke has put both a shed overlapping one end of the window, a trellis right up almost touching and – worst and most aggressive – a piece of wood against the outside of the window so that effectively we can’t open it all all, not even a centimetre. DH very upset. It does feel like a bullying act of aggression, especially given we agreed to limit the window from our side, and it means we can’t clean the outside of the window by opening it and with the trellis etc DH thinks it’s going to get quickly fouled up with trapped leaves.
Meanwhile the pretence at being civilised carries on apace and DH, who bumps into the bloke fairly regularly (I never seem to see them but I’m away a lot) has invited them both round for coffee and to see the bathroom, to which they’ve just replied they’ll get back to us with times.
DH wants civility to prevail and wants me to re-open the question of a window limiter and could he please kindly remove his fucking aggressive stick from our window (my words, I’m getting angry writing this).

My problem is I’m a post-menopausal harpy and I feel only capable of two modes with this. 1. Play dumb and nice but not get involved. 2. Give it to bloke with all barrels, tell him what I think of his piece of wood and call him out for bullying DH. DH is a totally non-macho pussycat by the way and probably mildly autistic, hence walking into this by blithely building his bloody window.
I could do without ANY of it! By the way there are no other windows on the back of our house except three roof skylights in the upstairs living room.

Help – what should I do? I’ve been putting off even thinking about it but it’s now upon us – the civilised visit – and I’m going to have to meet these people and say something. But what? AIBU to want to fight the bully?
Sorry so long. Really didn’t want to drip feed.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!
OP posts:
Qhaecciarr · 25/04/2023 13:37

I mean...I see both sides of it, but ultimately I'd hate it more than I can say to have someone else's window opening onto my garden, even if it was at the very end of it. That said, I would probably fence or screen off that little part of the garden so visibility was not an issue, and put a stinky compost heap in there to keep your bathroom window company!

talknomore · 25/04/2023 13:37

Even with the inward opening window you will not be able to use it. In your bqthroom I would add an extractor to either roof or garrage. It will do the job. Choose one with a sensor.
I am not sure if you can put one like that in the panel of your window. It could potentially anger your neighbours further.

steppemum · 25/04/2023 13:37

bigbluebus · 25/04/2023 13:17

@steppemum . How old is your house? It wouldn't be allowed now.

those windows put in in 1980s

Namechange1345677 · 25/04/2023 13:39

Brick it back up.

AppallinglyReheated · 25/04/2023 13:40

You really have two choices here.

Leave as is - no way to open window, it will fill up with crap between window and shed/trellis/etc... nothing you can do.

Replace with inward opening/sash opening window and GROVEL like fuck to neighbour to move whats blocking it so you can open it for air flow sometimes. YMMV.

He might be being a shit about it but he is in the right, and your DH was being devious and sneaky in putting in an outward opening window on the boundary at a time when no one would spot it, hoping no one would notice.

LAMPS1 · 25/04/2023 13:40

Maybe your new neighbour bought their new house because they loved that bit of the walled garden and had plans for planting in front of the sunny wall or maybe they wanted to build a shed there or build a seating area in that particular spot down at the bottom. Nobody wants a seating area next to a toilet with an open window…even if it’s only two inches open. So in this case I can imagine they’re upset to find the wall suddenly had a window which wasn’t there when they looked around and when they made their decision to buy along with their plans. It’s an intrusion caused by your DH they weren’t expecting but that you expect them to live with.
Your DH was cheeky to tell the EA to warn them about it when he knew all along that it wouldn’t be well received. He took advantage by all accounts.

People would see this as the neighbour simply asserting his rights with his trellis and bit of wood, - whereas you see it as him bullying your DH. Bit of a stretch really, especially of they have agreed to come for tea.
If I were you I would I busy myself serving the tea and cake and leave all the talk to DH. After all, it was him who created this situation against your wishes.

ExhaustedPigwidgeon · 25/04/2023 13:41

piedbeauty · 25/04/2023 13:37

i do get that but for me the bigger issue would be the smells and sounds coming out of the bathroom. If they leave the window open and have a loud poo - or if they leave the extractor fan on after a shower for ages and leave the window open so you can hear that buzzing sound the extractor makes. Or if you’re sitting on your seating area having a glass of wine and you get to watch the neighbour having their evening shower because they forgot you can see in.

But, @ExhaustedPigwidgeon, with lots of houses you're much much closer to people's bathrooms than the neighbour is here! So is that an issue? It looks like his garden is about 100 feet long. Would he be able to hear anything from there? If you lived in a flat with a garden you'd be much closer to people's bathrooms!

What if he wanted a seating area at the end of his garden? Just because it’s not visible from his house doesn’t mean it’s not unreasonably intrusive.

Inkblue · 25/04/2023 13:41

The whole thing is ridiculous. I live in the ground floor flat in a building where all the other bathroom windows open above an area of my property that I use frequently and is also over the front door. Their windows are glazed and I haven’t once, in 20 years, felt overlooked or heard anything unpleasant though these windows. I forget they are there. Your neighbour should have made sure he was happy with all aspects of his property before he bought it.

NoTouch · 25/04/2023 13:42

But this time DH thought the timing meant he could get away with it.

Essentially it boils down to, no he couldn't. You both knew previous neighbours were not happy and the next neighbours probably would not be happy but you tried to force it as a done deal.

You chanced your arm, it didn't work out and they are not unreasonable in not putting up with it. Why should they when they are 100% in the right.

I would block the window back up and get a sky roof light and vent through the roof too (you should be able to use tunnel lights and vents up and into the garage roof).

A very expensive mistake and lesson for you, but your mistake and not the neighbours fault at all.

Redebs · 25/04/2023 13:42

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 13:34

Did you really get planning permission, op?!
Your wording is a bit strange - you asked neighbour, they said no. Then neighbour changes so you "thought you'd get away with it".

Sounds like the planning permission was only uncontested because the neighbour had died. That's pretty mean.

steppemum · 25/04/2023 13:43

ExhaustedPigwidgeon · 25/04/2023 13:41

What if he wanted a seating area at the end of his garden? Just because it’s not visible from his house doesn’t mean it’s not unreasonably intrusive.

I have sympathy for the nieghbour BUT

When he bought the house the planning permission for the window was ALREADY GRANTED.
Therefore is really is his mistake (or his lawyers) that they didn't take it into account.
If you buy a house with a window overlooking your garden then that is how it is.

Legally the nieghbour doesn't have a leg to stand on.

What you do about living next to each other though is another thing altogether.

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 13:43

Inkblue · 25/04/2023 13:41

The whole thing is ridiculous. I live in the ground floor flat in a building where all the other bathroom windows open above an area of my property that I use frequently and is also over the front door. Their windows are glazed and I haven’t once, in 20 years, felt overlooked or heard anything unpleasant though these windows. I forget they are there. Your neighbour should have made sure he was happy with all aspects of his property before he bought it.

Blocks of flats are completely different 🙄

SofiaSoFar · 25/04/2023 13:48

@EggInANest It all comes down to the planning permission.

It doesn't.

No matter what the planning permission says, it can never, ever give OP rights over someone else's property.

If the window opens over the boundary, the neighbour has every right to object to and prevent that happening.

Planning permission does not redraw boundaries!

jennytheonionslayer · 25/04/2023 13:48

Sorry op, but I would have a large shed roughy up against that window.

Your husband created this mess.

Brick it up and fit skylights is the only solution.

OlderandwiserMaybe · 25/04/2023 13:51

@bathroomwindowargh What does your planning permission say about the opening of the window? Actually that's the only thing that matters.
You DH obviously knew this was going to be a contentious issue which is why you left it until the house was empty to put in the widow.

I'd be extraordinarily surprised if your planning permission included a window opening up onto someone elses land.
If I was the new neighbour I'd be annoyed too and also thinking of putting up something myside to obscure the window TBF.

LizzieSiddal · 25/04/2023 13:53

We’re in a village and have a very long garden and like to think of myself as a a kind considerate neighbour.

However I would be so upset if a neighbour did this to us. I’d never want to use the end of my garden incase someone was in your bathroom and about to open the window. 🤢

LizzieSiddal · 25/04/2023 13:55

Your DH is basically saying to his neighbours ”I DO NOT CARE IF YOU CAN SMELL OUR SHIT”

And you are both surprised he’s upset?! 😂

Likewhatever · 25/04/2023 13:56

There’s no getting round the fact that your neighbour is in the right here and you are in the wrong. That said, there may be a way to salvage things if you’re willing to spend the money and change the window to a design he might find acceptable. What about a fixed obscure window with a small inward opening light at the top? Your neighbours are avoiding coming round to see the bathroom because they think (possibly correctly) that your DH is hoping to talk them round. It would be better to approach this in the spirit of “what would you like us to do?”

Changedmymindtoday · 25/04/2023 13:58

I can’t see why the new neighbour is being such a dick. Assuming the window is frosted, it’s not like you are looking at each other.

GasPanic · 25/04/2023 13:58

LizzieSiddal · 25/04/2023 13:55

Your DH is basically saying to his neighbours ”I DO NOT CARE IF YOU CAN SMELL OUR SHIT”

And you are both surprised he’s upset?! 😂

It would have to be one hell of a shit for him to get a whiff of it from 150 ft away.

Maybe that's why the OP needs the window though.

SofiaSoFar · 25/04/2023 14:00

It would have to be one hell of a shit for him to get a whiff of it from 150 ft away.

The neighbour could be enjoying his own property 0 ft away from the window.

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 14:00

The nasty neighbour in this scenario is you, op.
Sneaking in a planning application while the property was empty and there was no one to object is pretty scurrilous behaviour.

Shame on you.

Acornsoup · 25/04/2023 14:00

You are making the bottom of the garden unusable. They won't want to trim hedges or cut grass for fear of being landed a peeping Tom. It's unreasonable to put them in this position.

steppemum · 25/04/2023 14:02

Likewhatever · 25/04/2023 13:56

There’s no getting round the fact that your neighbour is in the right here and you are in the wrong. That said, there may be a way to salvage things if you’re willing to spend the money and change the window to a design he might find acceptable. What about a fixed obscure window with a small inward opening light at the top? Your neighbours are avoiding coming round to see the bathroom because they think (possibly correctly) that your DH is hoping to talk them round. It would be better to approach this in the spirit of “what would you like us to do?”

No I disagree.

The neighbour bought the house with the window already in place in planning.

He is NOW upset because his lawyer didn't point it out to him.

Even if the window became inward opening, all the reasons people have cited eg they can hear the loo flush etc would still apply.

His lawyer was at fault here, for not picking up on the window's existence.
There may be some discussion over whether of not is should be allowed to open outwardly, but there is no discusion that the window was in fact granted before he signed the contract.

It is like buying a house next to a church and then complaining that the church bells ring..... oh wait.....

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 14:03

If I was the neighbour I'd erect a 6 foot fence right on the border of my land, two inches from your window.
You are so out of order, op.