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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!

489 replies

bathroomwindowargh · 25/04/2023 11:53

So much of this is tedious backstory, but better to contextualise and not drip feed, so here we go. Also I’d prob be wise to change details but on the other hand I can barely get my head round it myself so this is all straight facts. Name changed though!
We live in a weird house, and when I moved in with now DH 15 years ago, as part of a revamp we built a new bathroom in part of the existing garage, bathroom had no window. The back wall of our house and garage and therefore the outer wall of the bathroom is a wall in someone else’s garden. I know I’m gonna have to add a diagram and I will!
The someone else was an elderly neighbour who I really loved and visited a lot, but she died a couple of years ago, and the house was empty for a bit.
This just happened to coincide with us re-doing the bathroom and DH thought it was a chance to put a window in. He didn’t put one in first time round because we asked elderly neighbour’s late DH and he said no, so fair enough we didn’t push it. But this time DH thought the timing meant he could get away with it. I was a bit unsure but he basically just went ahead.
In the process he a) informed the son of late elderly woman that window was happening and could he please tell any buyers.
b) informed the estate agents to please tell any buyers.
c) got planning permission.

Basically he kept in touch with son and EA so we thought all good. Window finished. New neighbours moved in. A couple in their 30s, new to the village (yes we live in a village, so it's rural). The bloke hit the roof at the window, and claims no one told him, but we have our suspicions that he might be telling porkies.
Now the window cannot be seen at all from their house (I know this for a fact because I spent plenty time in their house visiting elderly friend, and I’m well aware what parts of the garden are visible from the house and what are not). This wall is not. It’s not a large window it’s a wide but shallow window from top to bottom window and the glass is not remotely see through, proper obscured glass. But the bloke hates it and is obviously very pissed off.
I have some sympathy for this to be honest, I did think DH was chancing it building the window while the house was empty, even though he played it all by the book.

Now to the meat. Since they moved in bloke and DH are at loggerheads but managing to be sort of surface polite, bloke came round and discussed it with DH and DH agreed to a window limiter so window would only open a couple of inches. Not happy but agreed. I was away so I haven’t met them.
However – DH says bloke was subtly threatening and bullying, and since we agreed to window limiter bloke has put both a shed overlapping one end of the window, a trellis right up almost touching and – worst and most aggressive – a piece of wood against the outside of the window so that effectively we can’t open it all all, not even a centimetre. DH very upset. It does feel like a bullying act of aggression, especially given we agreed to limit the window from our side, and it means we can’t clean the outside of the window by opening it and with the trellis etc DH thinks it’s going to get quickly fouled up with trapped leaves.
Meanwhile the pretence at being civilised carries on apace and DH, who bumps into the bloke fairly regularly (I never seem to see them but I’m away a lot) has invited them both round for coffee and to see the bathroom, to which they’ve just replied they’ll get back to us with times.
DH wants civility to prevail and wants me to re-open the question of a window limiter and could he please kindly remove his fucking aggressive stick from our window (my words, I’m getting angry writing this).

My problem is I’m a post-menopausal harpy and I feel only capable of two modes with this. 1. Play dumb and nice but not get involved. 2. Give it to bloke with all barrels, tell him what I think of his piece of wood and call him out for bullying DH. DH is a totally non-macho pussycat by the way and probably mildly autistic, hence walking into this by blithely building his bloody window.
I could do without ANY of it! By the way there are no other windows on the back of our house except three roof skylights in the upstairs living room.

Help – what should I do? I’ve been putting off even thinking about it but it’s now upon us – the civilised visit – and I’m going to have to meet these people and say something. But what? AIBU to want to fight the bully?
Sorry so long. Really didn’t want to drip feed.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!
OP posts:
JennyForeigner · 25/04/2023 18:43

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 17:51

The delicious irony of this post following one from a qualified barrister stating the exact opposite has made me laugh. Bless...

That was a wonderfully MN moment. On both sides 😁

DelurkingLawyer · 25/04/2023 18:59

JennyForeigner · 25/04/2023 18:43

That was a wonderfully MN moment. On both sides 😁

I don’t want to be too hard on anyone who reached a different conclusion (although they are wrong!).

Nuisance is one of the most difficult areas of law I do. That’s partly because the principles don’t always seem “fair” to the layman. A recent example is the Tate gallery “overlooking” case where the flats were visible from the viewing platform. Lots of people said “but the Tate was there first” - that’s not a defence to a claim in nuisance (yes you can move in next door to a factory and then complain about the noise - whether it’s a nuisance isn’t decided on a “who was there first” basis).

That’s why I put in the example of the car sometimes overhanging someone else’s drive. Most people can see why that’s not right. A big part of my job is explaining the law in a way that people “get”.

WhoToBeToday · 25/04/2023 19:19

I have a 300 foot garden. I would be seriously unhappy if someone's window (obscured or not) faced onto it. Even though I don't go down there very often, the whole knowledge it was there would feel intrusive.

Your DH fucked up.

JudgeRudy · 25/04/2023 19:22

I guess if you've already got planning permission it's tough, however I'm unclear what type of window it is. Doesthe window open on to his gardenie when you open it dies the bottom of the opened window now sit in their garden? I'd be really surprised if you could essentially encroach onto so.eone else's land.
I can understand you wanting light in your bathroom but no way would I want to be taking a bath or using the loo knowing my neighbour (and any of his guests) could look in through the window!

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 25/04/2023 19:56

RestrictiveCovenant · 25/04/2023 16:47

We had one of these in a hallway in our previous house op. It wasn’t possible to have a window (very odd lay out), but this went up to a higher roofline and let in a ton of natural light. Might work tunnelled up through the garage.
https://solatube.co.uk/residential/

This is pretty much what I currently have in my downstairs, windowless bathroom, it's a light well. My bathroom is in a single storey extension (very old cottages), and goes up through the ceiling and then up to the roofline. I'd love to have it replaced with a full glass roof, but it means raising the whole ceiling up to the roofline, so I'm still thinking about it. But the lightwell works really well to bring natural light into an otherwise unilluminated room!

Floralnomad · 25/04/2023 20:04

Unless you can take the window out I’d just seal it up , stick a blind up on the inside and pretend it’s not there . The fact that the old neighbour said no should have given you a hint as to how this would go down with any buyer - and you got on well with them . I don’t blame your neighbour for covering it up as I’d likely do the same , and as he is on his own property I doubt there is much you can do .

MattTebbuttsDenimShirt · 25/04/2023 20:22

Imagine sitting out by candlelight on a lovely summers Eve and part of your garden gets lit up every time someone has a wee, a shower, whatever, uses the bathroom. It would drive me mad(der).

Itsmebutnotme · 25/04/2023 20:24

@bathroomwindowargh Has your neighbour threatened legal action and you have come on here to find out where you stand?

Iloveajacketspud · 25/04/2023 20:45

Convenient you seem to be away when lots of things have been signed off and approved

I think your dh is panicking (and rightly so!) as he’s tried to pull a fast one and new neighbour isn’t happy

as you’ve had this long without a windows just resign yourself to not having one and if you do get some light that’s a bonus

RunAwayTurnAwayRunAwayTurnAway · 25/04/2023 21:05

I think, whilst erecting this window, a mess has been made on the neighbours' side and they are pissed off.

maddy68 · 25/04/2023 21:06

Floralnomad · 25/04/2023 20:04

Unless you can take the window out I’d just seal it up , stick a blind up on the inside and pretend it’s not there . The fact that the old neighbour said no should have given you a hint as to how this would go down with any buyer - and you got on well with them . I don’t blame your neighbour for covering it up as I’d likely do the same , and as he is on his own property I doubt there is much you can do .

I would also do this.

You haven't got panning permission for the window. Only for the extension

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 21:08

maddy68 · 25/04/2023 21:06

I would also do this.

You haven't got panning permission for the window. Only for the extension

I doubt the neighbour will forget it's there. Why should he?

MrBit · 25/04/2023 21:15

If I were the neighbour I'd want it bricked up my side, there's no saying what other people would do if it was sold on otherwise

Cakeorchocolate · 25/04/2023 21:20

Haven't rtft, read OPs updates.

I can't see why you feel the need to apologise or get DH to. From your posts, there is pp for the window. Therefore no-one has done anything wrong.

The most I would do when speaking to the neighbour is acknowledge that you understand it must be frustrating for them if they were unaware of the change but that you / DH had specifically spoken to everyone you could to ensure potential buyers were informed of the planned window.

I also can't see why they're making such a big deal about it from your diagram.

Lolaandbehold · 25/04/2023 21:49

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 17:51

The delicious irony of this post following one from a qualified barrister stating the exact opposite has made me laugh. Bless...

I only read the OPs.
But I’m not a barrister with any knowledge of the law, ‘tis true. In my defence I have dealt a fair bit with the planning department of the local council and my conclusion is they’re generally assholes. I’m actually amazed that the OP got planning at all.
I still think the NDN is being a dick for the sake of it.

Rollercoaster1920 · 25/04/2023 22:10

For a lot of properties a new window didn't need planning permission because it would be permitted development.

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 22:25

Rollercoaster1920 · 25/04/2023 22:10

For a lot of properties a new window didn't need planning permission because it would be permitted development.

Permitted development doesn't allow for overlooking or extending across boundaries.

OrwellianTimes · 25/04/2023 22:33

Your husband is a chancer here and it hasn’t paid off.

SofiaSoFar · 25/04/2023 23:01

@Cakeorchocolate

Haven't rtft...

Clearly. 🙄

Is coming to a thread and proudly announcing that you couldn't be arsed to read it before posting incorrect advice/assertions supposed to prove something..?

Strictlyfanoftenyears · 25/04/2023 23:21

Get your husband to deal with it....... it seems that this is all his fault anyway!

chocolatebunnybop · 26/04/2023 00:27

Is there not a right of access in the titles to allow you to maintain your external wall/window etc or for repairs? Wouldn't they be obstructing that clause?

meatbaseddessert · 26/04/2023 00:35

WhoToBeToday · 25/04/2023 19:19

I have a 300 foot garden. I would be seriously unhappy if someone's window (obscured or not) faced onto it. Even though I don't go down there very often, the whole knowledge it was there would feel intrusive.

Your DH fucked up.

Quite. I have a 200 METER garden and this would fuck me off.

Our new neighbours moved in and chopped down a load of trees on their side of the boundary which means that when ever we go to the bottom of our garden we can see right into their bathroom. Irrespective of the window privacy film we can still see errr 'outlines' which is pretty unpleasant when tending to a herbaceous border or sharing a gin with a friend Hmm

Mortimercat · 26/04/2023 06:56

Cakeorchocolate · 25/04/2023 21:20

Haven't rtft, read OPs updates.

I can't see why you feel the need to apologise or get DH to. From your posts, there is pp for the window. Therefore no-one has done anything wrong.

The most I would do when speaking to the neighbour is acknowledge that you understand it must be frustrating for them if they were unaware of the change but that you / DH had specifically spoken to everyone you could to ensure potential buyers were informed of the planned window.

I also can't see why they're making such a big deal about it from your diagram.

@Cakeorchocolate

I don’t always read a full thread either. But in this case, if you had read the full thread, you would have read the very credible response from a barrister that deals in nuisance law. And it is very clear that there is no way PP would have been granted for an outward opening window over somebody’s garden, because it would be trespass and nuisance. (And you would note OP is deliberately vague and definitely has not said they have pp for it).

If I were the neighbour, I would be taking them to court to get this window taken out before it becomes an easement.

L1ttledrummergirl · 26/04/2023 08:42

chocolatebunnybop · 26/04/2023 00:27

Is there not a right of access in the titles to allow you to maintain your external wall/window etc or for repairs? Wouldn't they be obstructing that clause?

My dp had similar, the neighbours built a shack right up to the boundary line, and didn't apply for pp (it's outside permitted development). They have gutter hanging over the fence. The council are awful, next stop is the ombudsman for a complaint as the council complaints policy was followed, upheld and ignored.

They told my dp they needed to put scaffold in their garden to do some essential work to their house, and were aghast that dp said no. I don't understand how they could have assumed they could just take over dp garden whenever they like.

What about the ops posts gives you the idea that they can breach a person's boundaries whenever they like?

CleverLilViper · 26/04/2023 08:55

I can see the neighbours POV to be honest.

It seems you both knew this was going to be an issue as your previous neighbours said no and you decided or your DH did to put it in when no one was there. Quite sneaky.

I don’t think I’d be happy. If it’s a bathroom window I assume the glass will be frosted with limited visibility anyway and maybe showing the neighbours that may help ease the tension.

however I’d worry if I were your neighbour about right to light and what you could start dictating about their garden in the future.

I think you need to start with showing the planning permission and trying to be reasonable and understanding of the issues your neighbours have with it.