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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!

489 replies

bathroomwindowargh · 25/04/2023 11:53

So much of this is tedious backstory, but better to contextualise and not drip feed, so here we go. Also I’d prob be wise to change details but on the other hand I can barely get my head round it myself so this is all straight facts. Name changed though!
We live in a weird house, and when I moved in with now DH 15 years ago, as part of a revamp we built a new bathroom in part of the existing garage, bathroom had no window. The back wall of our house and garage and therefore the outer wall of the bathroom is a wall in someone else’s garden. I know I’m gonna have to add a diagram and I will!
The someone else was an elderly neighbour who I really loved and visited a lot, but she died a couple of years ago, and the house was empty for a bit.
This just happened to coincide with us re-doing the bathroom and DH thought it was a chance to put a window in. He didn’t put one in first time round because we asked elderly neighbour’s late DH and he said no, so fair enough we didn’t push it. But this time DH thought the timing meant he could get away with it. I was a bit unsure but he basically just went ahead.
In the process he a) informed the son of late elderly woman that window was happening and could he please tell any buyers.
b) informed the estate agents to please tell any buyers.
c) got planning permission.

Basically he kept in touch with son and EA so we thought all good. Window finished. New neighbours moved in. A couple in their 30s, new to the village (yes we live in a village, so it's rural). The bloke hit the roof at the window, and claims no one told him, but we have our suspicions that he might be telling porkies.
Now the window cannot be seen at all from their house (I know this for a fact because I spent plenty time in their house visiting elderly friend, and I’m well aware what parts of the garden are visible from the house and what are not). This wall is not. It’s not a large window it’s a wide but shallow window from top to bottom window and the glass is not remotely see through, proper obscured glass. But the bloke hates it and is obviously very pissed off.
I have some sympathy for this to be honest, I did think DH was chancing it building the window while the house was empty, even though he played it all by the book.

Now to the meat. Since they moved in bloke and DH are at loggerheads but managing to be sort of surface polite, bloke came round and discussed it with DH and DH agreed to a window limiter so window would only open a couple of inches. Not happy but agreed. I was away so I haven’t met them.
However – DH says bloke was subtly threatening and bullying, and since we agreed to window limiter bloke has put both a shed overlapping one end of the window, a trellis right up almost touching and – worst and most aggressive – a piece of wood against the outside of the window so that effectively we can’t open it all all, not even a centimetre. DH very upset. It does feel like a bullying act of aggression, especially given we agreed to limit the window from our side, and it means we can’t clean the outside of the window by opening it and with the trellis etc DH thinks it’s going to get quickly fouled up with trapped leaves.
Meanwhile the pretence at being civilised carries on apace and DH, who bumps into the bloke fairly regularly (I never seem to see them but I’m away a lot) has invited them both round for coffee and to see the bathroom, to which they’ve just replied they’ll get back to us with times.
DH wants civility to prevail and wants me to re-open the question of a window limiter and could he please kindly remove his fucking aggressive stick from our window (my words, I’m getting angry writing this).

My problem is I’m a post-menopausal harpy and I feel only capable of two modes with this. 1. Play dumb and nice but not get involved. 2. Give it to bloke with all barrels, tell him what I think of his piece of wood and call him out for bullying DH. DH is a totally non-macho pussycat by the way and probably mildly autistic, hence walking into this by blithely building his bloody window.
I could do without ANY of it! By the way there are no other windows on the back of our house except three roof skylights in the upstairs living room.

Help – what should I do? I’ve been putting off even thinking about it but it’s now upon us – the civilised visit – and I’m going to have to meet these people and say something. But what? AIBU to want to fight the bully?
Sorry so long. Really didn’t want to drip feed.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!
OP posts:
Bayleaf25 · 25/04/2023 16:08

Sorry I also agree that YABU. I wonder if planning permission assumed a non opening window (just glazing?). Your neighbour is within his rights to put a shed or fence wherever he wants on his land. I wouldn’t want someone else’s window opening into my garden either.

JemimaTiggywinkles · 25/04/2023 16:09

I'd stay out of it, OP. It was your DH's decision to get the window put in so he can deal with the fallout. As you say, he knew he was being sneaky about it.

Viviennemary · 25/04/2023 16:10

Are you sure you got planning permission to turn your garage into a bathroom with a window. You said it was inward opening in one post. Then implied it was outward opening. Which is it.

DrPrunesquallor · 25/04/2023 16:10

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 16:05

How is it a different issue? The issue is an overhang beyond your own boundary into an adjoining garden.
There are restrictions on this however long and hard you argue.

No the OPs issue is a window on the boundary and one which opens into her neighbours land. The window as it opens is a temporary overhang without an easement and she shouldn’t be allowed it.

The other new issue which has reared up is whether part of a building can over hang a boundary ie roof tiles / barge boards. Small things like that.
Thats a separate issue. That is the issue I was referring to from a previous post.

MrBit · 25/04/2023 16:11

Have you actually seen the permission @bathroomwindowargh It looks to me that you should only have windows on one side
im surprised you were allowed to install a bathroom there with out adequate ventilation too
you sure your husband isn’t telling you porkies too ?

KimberleyClark · 25/04/2023 16:13

OP how was the bathroom being ventilated before you put the window in?

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 16:14

you sure your husband isn’t telling you porkies too ?
I strongly suspect that's the case.

DangerNoodles · 25/04/2023 16:14

I was wondering the same @MrBit, it would explain why her DH is being so timid.

OP if you can still buy the same tiles, it would be wise to do so. If there is no planning permission, you will be made to restore the wall to the way it was.

RunAwayTurnAwayRunAwayTurnAway · 25/04/2023 16:15

How did the window hole and window get installed? Did you/your builders trespass onto neighbour's land to do this?!

AppallinglyReheated · 25/04/2023 16:15

Is OP ever returning...

I would be really surprised if what was built actually matches the plans PP was granted for...

In the OP's shoes, I'd be treading VERY carefully, as if the building does not match PP they could be caused to take it all down and start over or return it to its former state and that is definitely going to cost more than taking out an outward opening window and switching it for something more suitable!

HeadNorth · 25/04/2023 16:16

I agree, there was no reason for the OP to drag her menopause into it - totally irrelevant excuse for standing feebly by watching her DH being a CF.

OP - your neighbours are not nasty, you are cheeky fuckers. I suggest you apologise to your neighbours and change your window to indoor opening. You live in a village. Neighbour disputes are hellish. It is not worth the bad feeling for a window that opens 2 inches inward instead of outward.

Pretending you are not involved won't work if you use the room as your husband has designed it - your new neighbours will hate both of you equally. I judge women whose husband's act like dicks - I assume they are dicks too, or else they wouldn't stand weakly by and condone the behaviour.

ExhaustedPigwidgeon · 25/04/2023 16:19

RecycleReuseRemind · 25/04/2023 15:55

He must have known this existed when he bought the property ?

You said planning permission was granted

End of discussion

The neighbour can put anything he wants on his property, directly in front of the property to completely block the window.

end of discussion.

do you see how your childish approach doesn’t help neighbourly relations?

NormasJeans · 25/04/2023 16:20

Haven’t read all posts, but could you offer to buy part of his garden? It could just be the slice by the window, so he can’t rest anything on your actual window anymore, or a chunk across the end of his garden which would allow you to have a decent sized garden out the back.

It looks like your house has been built in the back of another neighbour’s garden; perhaps your new neighbour is planning on selling the bottom of his long garden to stick another house on, which is why he is particularly annoyed about your window.

ExhaustedPigwidgeon · 25/04/2023 16:20

Viviennemary · 25/04/2023 16:10

Are you sure you got planning permission to turn your garage into a bathroom with a window. You said it was inward opening in one post. Then implied it was outward opening. Which is it.

The OP said she wished she had thought to talk about inward opening windows to her husband. She didn’t say they were

Wheresthebeach · 25/04/2023 16:23

Switch it for indoor opening asap and check the planning permission yourself. I suspect the neighbour may be getting copies so I’d want to be 100% sure of where I stood.

if everything is in order then good - I guess they can’t stop you using it even if they don’t like it.

CoffeeWithCheese · 25/04/2023 16:26

I'm in team neighbour here - your DH saw the chance to take the piss and get what he wanted and he's come up against someone who is going to stand their ground. Whether the garden is a strange shape and you can't see it from the house is irrelevant - and don't garden programmes wank on a lot about not being able to see the whole vista at once yadda yadda yadda - they might have wanted a secluded sex pond at the end of the garden round the corner and now your bathroom window has turned it into a floodlit spectator sport every time someone pops to the bog for a poo. Irrelevant how you think they SHOULD be using the garden really.

Just be grateful you don't have our old neighbours - one family had a dart board mounted at the end of the garden and used to get drunk, sit topless in the sun and play darts down there and out the back used to sit in the garden drinking and shout "you're having a poo" and then make poo noises at any houses where the bathroom lights switched on on an evening. Of course - neighbour - if you're on here - please feel free to adopt either of these strategies... it did hit the point where we'd go to the loo in the dark because we were so sick of the "witty" shouting.

AliceOlive · 25/04/2023 16:27

BoogieBoogieWoogie · 25/04/2023 15:54

I imagine he went "apoloplectic" upon finding someone had knocked out a window into his garden wall, without his knowledge!

Why do you find it so difficult to understand his grievance?

Because I think it wasn't his garden wall when it was installed, or his permission would have been required.

I think he bought a garden next to a house with a window in the wall abutting his garden.

Emotionalsupportviper · 25/04/2023 16:28

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 25/04/2023 12:06

Why didn't you put a window in the ceiling? I have a windowless bathroom (middle terrace, downstairs bathroom), with a lightwell in the ceiling and I'm looking to have it replaced with a big glass window in the roof.

A window that directly looks out onto someone else's garden like this is always going to be tricky. Could you put up a fixed blind or something in the meantime?

Friends of ours have a large circular ceiling window in their dining room - it looks amazing and lets in tons of light.

CardinalCopia · 25/04/2023 16:30

It's a Mail link, but this is what one, rightfully fed up, neighbour did:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1210874/Neighbour-builds-6ft-wall-half-inch-familys-windows-stop-trespassing-land-opening-them.html

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!
diflasu · 25/04/2023 16:33

The back wall of our house and garage and therefore the outer wall of the bathroom is a wall in someone else’s garden.

it's not a boundary. Our whole wall is in their garden.

I assume you mean your wall is on your land up to your boundary and next to you is their garden and their land - rather than a wall - as it does read you house sits on their land which can't be right.

I think you needed a flying easement of something - but surely your solicitor who said there could be no party wall agreement as no wall would have advised you about the situation with windows over hanging.

Honestly despite the additional costs I'd look at changing the window to a inward opening one or a sash style one or if that's not possible hope the limiter sorts the situation.

Essentially you are opening a bathroom window into his garden and he can put up trellis or move dung heaps in his garden as he wishes - I can see why the new neighbours are annoyed and honestly if it stays with wood and trellis rather then get legal it may still be a win.

SoDamnObvious · 25/04/2023 16:33

DrPrunesquallor · 25/04/2023 15:53

No.
You can build up to the boundary
If you have glass it must be 1m2 maximum ( some councils require smaller ) and it must be obscured.

I have never had a case where an openable window on the boundary is allowed. But I would never advice it either as it’s rude.

I was surprised op had pp to open the window into the neighbours garden.

I suspect we may not be getting the true story here.

Bellavida99 · 25/04/2023 16:35

To be honest I’d probably stack a huge sheet of plywood there to let in no light either so think yourself lucky he’s just put a stick there! God it would infuriate me having a window appear there.

SirTarquin · 25/04/2023 16:36

@CardinalCopia - god that picture makes me feel claustrophically ill.

@bathroomwindowargh serious question based on your second diagram - why did you buy this property???

It's an extremely weird shape, has no garden and has the (as it turns out) high probability factor of a boundary dispute because your house wall is a boundary wall into a garden - forget about the window - it would be high risk anyway.

Kids playing tennis or football against the wall, maintainence access, ivy or destructive planting etc - it was always going to be a nightmare.

I think you either put up with the stick and hope you don't get a wall built in front of you or stump up for an inward opening window.

GasPanic · 25/04/2023 16:38

CardinalCopia · 25/04/2023 16:30

Hard to see how they get a view of "glorious rolling countryside" from that window, even without the wall.

BoogieBoogieWoogie · 25/04/2023 16:40

SirTarquin · 25/04/2023 16:36

@CardinalCopia - god that picture makes me feel claustrophically ill.

@bathroomwindowargh serious question based on your second diagram - why did you buy this property???

It's an extremely weird shape, has no garden and has the (as it turns out) high probability factor of a boundary dispute because your house wall is a boundary wall into a garden - forget about the window - it would be high risk anyway.

Kids playing tennis or football against the wall, maintainence access, ivy or destructive planting etc - it was always going to be a nightmare.

I think you either put up with the stick and hope you don't get a wall built in front of you or stump up for an inward opening window.

She does have a small garden, if you look at the second diagram. But otherwise I agree. No windows on one side of the house, reminiscent of the old back to backs