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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!

489 replies

bathroomwindowargh · 25/04/2023 11:53

So much of this is tedious backstory, but better to contextualise and not drip feed, so here we go. Also I’d prob be wise to change details but on the other hand I can barely get my head round it myself so this is all straight facts. Name changed though!
We live in a weird house, and when I moved in with now DH 15 years ago, as part of a revamp we built a new bathroom in part of the existing garage, bathroom had no window. The back wall of our house and garage and therefore the outer wall of the bathroom is a wall in someone else’s garden. I know I’m gonna have to add a diagram and I will!
The someone else was an elderly neighbour who I really loved and visited a lot, but she died a couple of years ago, and the house was empty for a bit.
This just happened to coincide with us re-doing the bathroom and DH thought it was a chance to put a window in. He didn’t put one in first time round because we asked elderly neighbour’s late DH and he said no, so fair enough we didn’t push it. But this time DH thought the timing meant he could get away with it. I was a bit unsure but he basically just went ahead.
In the process he a) informed the son of late elderly woman that window was happening and could he please tell any buyers.
b) informed the estate agents to please tell any buyers.
c) got planning permission.

Basically he kept in touch with son and EA so we thought all good. Window finished. New neighbours moved in. A couple in their 30s, new to the village (yes we live in a village, so it's rural). The bloke hit the roof at the window, and claims no one told him, but we have our suspicions that he might be telling porkies.
Now the window cannot be seen at all from their house (I know this for a fact because I spent plenty time in their house visiting elderly friend, and I’m well aware what parts of the garden are visible from the house and what are not). This wall is not. It’s not a large window it’s a wide but shallow window from top to bottom window and the glass is not remotely see through, proper obscured glass. But the bloke hates it and is obviously very pissed off.
I have some sympathy for this to be honest, I did think DH was chancing it building the window while the house was empty, even though he played it all by the book.

Now to the meat. Since they moved in bloke and DH are at loggerheads but managing to be sort of surface polite, bloke came round and discussed it with DH and DH agreed to a window limiter so window would only open a couple of inches. Not happy but agreed. I was away so I haven’t met them.
However – DH says bloke was subtly threatening and bullying, and since we agreed to window limiter bloke has put both a shed overlapping one end of the window, a trellis right up almost touching and – worst and most aggressive – a piece of wood against the outside of the window so that effectively we can’t open it all all, not even a centimetre. DH very upset. It does feel like a bullying act of aggression, especially given we agreed to limit the window from our side, and it means we can’t clean the outside of the window by opening it and with the trellis etc DH thinks it’s going to get quickly fouled up with trapped leaves.
Meanwhile the pretence at being civilised carries on apace and DH, who bumps into the bloke fairly regularly (I never seem to see them but I’m away a lot) has invited them both round for coffee and to see the bathroom, to which they’ve just replied they’ll get back to us with times.
DH wants civility to prevail and wants me to re-open the question of a window limiter and could he please kindly remove his fucking aggressive stick from our window (my words, I’m getting angry writing this).

My problem is I’m a post-menopausal harpy and I feel only capable of two modes with this. 1. Play dumb and nice but not get involved. 2. Give it to bloke with all barrels, tell him what I think of his piece of wood and call him out for bullying DH. DH is a totally non-macho pussycat by the way and probably mildly autistic, hence walking into this by blithely building his bloody window.
I could do without ANY of it! By the way there are no other windows on the back of our house except three roof skylights in the upstairs living room.

Help – what should I do? I’ve been putting off even thinking about it but it’s now upon us – the civilised visit – and I’m going to have to meet these people and say something. But what? AIBU to want to fight the bully?
Sorry so long. Really didn’t want to drip feed.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!
OP posts:
HairyKitty · 25/04/2023 15:41

Op you need to check the permission.
You prob have permission for frosted glass but very unlikely you have the right to an opening window.

AliceOlive · 25/04/2023 15:42

DrPrunesquallor · 25/04/2023 15:27

This is true.
But the neighbour equally has a right to block the window with a fence.
Yet OP seems surprised by new owners reaction when it seems perfectly normal

I think that depends upon local laws. There could (should) be a minimum required setback, planning permission requirements, agreement from adjoining property owners, etc.

GoodChat · 25/04/2023 15:42

@HairyKitty that doesn't make OP's husband any less sly. The window wasn't there when they started their purchase. The solicitor may not have even known the planning request had been submitted if it was put in after they did their checks.

neilyoungismyhero · 25/04/2023 15:45

StarbucksSmarterSister · 25/04/2023 12:38

When you open the window, you are trespassing over his property.

OP said it opens inwards.

Don't think she did.

Monkeytapper · 25/04/2023 15:46

I wouldn’t be happy if I was your neighbour sat in their garden having a BBQ and being able to hear and smell you or your OH curling one out.

DrPrunesquallor · 25/04/2023 15:46

AliceOlive · 25/04/2023 15:42

I think that depends upon local laws. There could (should) be a minimum required setback, planning permission requirements, agreement from adjoining property owners, etc.

No
Nothing local about this one
You can build on your own land up to your boundary. ( guessing all the party wall agreements in place for foundations etc , that’s for the building obv not the window )

EggInANest · 25/04/2023 15:47

I daresay you do see it.

But I have been involved in two building projects, one through my job and one protecting my parents against their gung ho extending neighbours and the right to not have the other party's guttering overhang someone else's property was legally established with no difficulty whatsoever.

TeapotElephant · 25/04/2023 15:47

. I don’t see how he can be so worked up about it, it’s right at the bottom of his garden and the limiter was a reasonable request. I think he is being a dick BUT I wouldn’t get stressed about it any further, I’d leave it. It’s such a daft thing to get into a neighbour dispute over and really, does the window need to open if you didn’t even have one before?

AliceOlive · 25/04/2023 15:47

Itsmebutnotme · 25/04/2023 15:34

That others don't have "a garden or a garden wall, never mind one that is completely private and enclosed" is the OP and their neighbours problem, why? It is possible to have a discussion with out references those that may have less.

I pointed this out because usually the majority MN judgement goes against anyone that has anything. Was surprised to see today they are on the side of massive garden guy. If he was here they would be telling him how they don't even have a blade of grass to themselves.

I think the bathroom sounds oppressive without the window. Suspect if they make friends they can find a way to make both sides happy but first need to figure out why he's apoplectic about this.

TeenLifeMum · 25/04/2023 15:49

I’d probably put a massive shed in front of it. Neighbour said no for a reasonable reason and I very much doubt the estate agent mentioned it (why would they risk the sale?). Put in an extractor fan and don’t open the window. I’m amazed you got planning permission but then you timed it when no one would be around to object. You’re pretty cheeky imo although I understand why you did it, unfortunately it’s backfired. You have no rights over your neighbour’s garden.

AliceOlive · 25/04/2023 15:50

DrPrunesquallor · 25/04/2023 15:46

No
Nothing local about this one
You can build on your own land up to your boundary. ( guessing all the party wall agreements in place for foundations etc , that’s for the building obv not the window )

Ok then the solution is obviously to tear out the entire back of the house and make it all glass.

Mortimercat · 25/04/2023 15:51

I am 100% on your neighbours side here. I don’t believe you could have had planning permission for this bathroom never mind having the bathroom window opening onto somebody else’s garden. If I were your neighbour I would do everything possible to stop you opening that window or benefiting from light from that window. What you really need to do, is brick it back up. You awful awful neighbours.

DrPrunesquallor · 25/04/2023 15:53

AliceOlive · 25/04/2023 15:50

Ok then the solution is obviously to tear out the entire back of the house and make it all glass.

No.
You can build up to the boundary
If you have glass it must be 1m2 maximum ( some councils require smaller ) and it must be obscured.

I have never had a case where an openable window on the boundary is allowed. But I would never advice it either as it’s rude.

Pottedpalm · 25/04/2023 15:53

TeenLifeMum · 25/04/2023 15:49

I’d probably put a massive shed in front of it. Neighbour said no for a reasonable reason and I very much doubt the estate agent mentioned it (why would they risk the sale?). Put in an extractor fan and don’t open the window. I’m amazed you got planning permission but then you timed it when no one would be around to object. You’re pretty cheeky imo although I understand why you did it, unfortunately it’s backfired. You have no rights over your neighbour’s garden.

just because neighbour(s) object
does not mean planning permission won’t granted.

BoogieBoogieWoogie · 25/04/2023 15:54

AliceOlive · 25/04/2023 15:47

I pointed this out because usually the majority MN judgement goes against anyone that has anything. Was surprised to see today they are on the side of massive garden guy. If he was here they would be telling him how they don't even have a blade of grass to themselves.

I think the bathroom sounds oppressive without the window. Suspect if they make friends they can find a way to make both sides happy but first need to figure out why he's apoplectic about this.

I imagine he went "apoloplectic" upon finding someone had knocked out a window into his garden wall, without his knowledge!

Why do you find it so difficult to understand his grievance?

DrPrunesquallor · 25/04/2023 15:55

Another matter worth mentioning
A bathroom is not a habitable room and therefore has no right to light.
It would need ventilating because of steam and to protect the fabric of the building which could be mechanical.

RecycleReuseRemind · 25/04/2023 15:55

He must have known this existed when he bought the property ?

You said planning permission was granted

End of discussion

HangerLaneGyratorySystem · 25/04/2023 15:56

The neighbour is never going to be ok, don't invite them round FFS. Quicker to write a sign saying "kick me" and stick it to your back, at least you don't have to make coffee that way. Its not a huge deal and I wouldn't have bothered complaining but if this guy is a bully you will never hear the end of it. Cut your losses, keep the window shut and put in an extractor and/or skylight whatever.

BTW you are bvvvunreasonable to say "oh I'm a silly lady with menopause tee her" - I fucking hate that, when women on here mention their pregnancy or periods or whatever and use that as a self deprecating excuse for something, why would you need an excuse, let alone one where you put yourself down? You're asking a reasonable question, you've got into a mess with this neighbour, you've asked for opinions, nothing to do with your ovaries.

friendlycat · 25/04/2023 16:00

Considering you yourself have sympathy with the neighbour and didn't think this was a great idea in the first place, surely the best approach is to remedy the situation.

Frosted glass with an unopenable window or brick it back up and rethink the light aspect.

I too would not be happy if I was your neighbour. I also don't quite understand the planning consent on this that surely had restrictions imposed about frosted glass and non opening etc?!

Realistically however far away from the neighbour's house your bathroom window is, this new neighbour may well choose to use his garden in a very different way to how the previous elderly neighbours did. And even you admit that the previous elderly neighbours did not want you to do this !!

I think also you have to recognise that the structure originally was a garage that you have changed the use of into a bathroom, that may well have caused you limitations anyway with ventilation, light etc.

HolidayHappy123 · 25/04/2023 16:02

You are 100% in the wrong.

Planning permission is irrelevant.

You have absolutely no entitlement to open the window over their land and they are entitled to do whatever they want on their land including blocking your window.

They are not nasty neighbours. You are CFs.

DrPrunesquallor · 25/04/2023 16:02

EggInANest · 25/04/2023 15:47

I daresay you do see it.

But I have been involved in two building projects, one through my job and one protecting my parents against their gung ho extending neighbours and the right to not have the other party's guttering overhang someone else's property was legally established with no difficulty whatsoever.

Are you really trying to trump me with your 2projects.

What’s the point.
Your dragging this into a different issue also.

Vivalaive · 25/04/2023 16:04

HairyKitty · 25/04/2023 15:38

How is that relevant?
Neighbour bought a house with an opening window in the garden. If all proper permissions were in place, and window meets requirements of the permission, then this is not ops fault in any way.
Maybe I get a new neighbour who complains about my skylight/greenhouse/treehouse. It’s tough if it was pre-existing when they bought it.

Do you wash naked or take a dump in any of your said sky light/ greenhouse / treehouse?

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 16:05

DrPrunesquallor · 25/04/2023 16:02

Are you really trying to trump me with your 2projects.

What’s the point.
Your dragging this into a different issue also.

How is it a different issue? The issue is an overhang beyond your own boundary into an adjoining garden.
There are restrictions on this however long and hard you argue.

DrPrunesquallor · 25/04/2023 16:05

HolidayHappy123 · 25/04/2023 16:02

You are 100% in the wrong.

Planning permission is irrelevant.

You have absolutely no entitlement to open the window over their land and they are entitled to do whatever they want on their land including blocking your window.

They are not nasty neighbours. You are CFs.

This is absolutely correct
I suspect the planners were not made aware the window was openable.
Openable windows are drawn differently from fixed lights.
Most people including draughtsmen draw them all the same.

OP you really need to check you’ve installed what you have permission for.

HolidayHappy123 · 25/04/2023 16:07

So much bad advice on this thread. Planning permission does not trump other people’s rights.

Anyone can apply for planning permission for anything. Say the OP had decided to seek permission to extend the bathroom three foot into the neighbour’s garden. It’s no answer to say PP was granted so tough luck.

The OP and her DH need to change their mindset that they are being bullied. Perhaps apologise to the neighbours for the misunderstanding and work with them to find a solution or be prepared to face a fence/shed/brick wall up against the window.