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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!

489 replies

bathroomwindowargh · 25/04/2023 11:53

So much of this is tedious backstory, but better to contextualise and not drip feed, so here we go. Also I’d prob be wise to change details but on the other hand I can barely get my head round it myself so this is all straight facts. Name changed though!
We live in a weird house, and when I moved in with now DH 15 years ago, as part of a revamp we built a new bathroom in part of the existing garage, bathroom had no window. The back wall of our house and garage and therefore the outer wall of the bathroom is a wall in someone else’s garden. I know I’m gonna have to add a diagram and I will!
The someone else was an elderly neighbour who I really loved and visited a lot, but she died a couple of years ago, and the house was empty for a bit.
This just happened to coincide with us re-doing the bathroom and DH thought it was a chance to put a window in. He didn’t put one in first time round because we asked elderly neighbour’s late DH and he said no, so fair enough we didn’t push it. But this time DH thought the timing meant he could get away with it. I was a bit unsure but he basically just went ahead.
In the process he a) informed the son of late elderly woman that window was happening and could he please tell any buyers.
b) informed the estate agents to please tell any buyers.
c) got planning permission.

Basically he kept in touch with son and EA so we thought all good. Window finished. New neighbours moved in. A couple in their 30s, new to the village (yes we live in a village, so it's rural). The bloke hit the roof at the window, and claims no one told him, but we have our suspicions that he might be telling porkies.
Now the window cannot be seen at all from their house (I know this for a fact because I spent plenty time in their house visiting elderly friend, and I’m well aware what parts of the garden are visible from the house and what are not). This wall is not. It’s not a large window it’s a wide but shallow window from top to bottom window and the glass is not remotely see through, proper obscured glass. But the bloke hates it and is obviously very pissed off.
I have some sympathy for this to be honest, I did think DH was chancing it building the window while the house was empty, even though he played it all by the book.

Now to the meat. Since they moved in bloke and DH are at loggerheads but managing to be sort of surface polite, bloke came round and discussed it with DH and DH agreed to a window limiter so window would only open a couple of inches. Not happy but agreed. I was away so I haven’t met them.
However – DH says bloke was subtly threatening and bullying, and since we agreed to window limiter bloke has put both a shed overlapping one end of the window, a trellis right up almost touching and – worst and most aggressive – a piece of wood against the outside of the window so that effectively we can’t open it all all, not even a centimetre. DH very upset. It does feel like a bullying act of aggression, especially given we agreed to limit the window from our side, and it means we can’t clean the outside of the window by opening it and with the trellis etc DH thinks it’s going to get quickly fouled up with trapped leaves.
Meanwhile the pretence at being civilised carries on apace and DH, who bumps into the bloke fairly regularly (I never seem to see them but I’m away a lot) has invited them both round for coffee and to see the bathroom, to which they’ve just replied they’ll get back to us with times.
DH wants civility to prevail and wants me to re-open the question of a window limiter and could he please kindly remove his fucking aggressive stick from our window (my words, I’m getting angry writing this).

My problem is I’m a post-menopausal harpy and I feel only capable of two modes with this. 1. Play dumb and nice but not get involved. 2. Give it to bloke with all barrels, tell him what I think of his piece of wood and call him out for bullying DH. DH is a totally non-macho pussycat by the way and probably mildly autistic, hence walking into this by blithely building his bloody window.
I could do without ANY of it! By the way there are no other windows on the back of our house except three roof skylights in the upstairs living room.

Help – what should I do? I’ve been putting off even thinking about it but it’s now upon us – the civilised visit – and I’m going to have to meet these people and say something. But what? AIBU to want to fight the bully?
Sorry so long. Really didn’t want to drip feed.

It's a nasty neighbour one with diagram!
OP posts:
DrPrunesquallor · 25/04/2023 15:21

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 15:14

It's not a shared boundary, it's the neighbour's garden? Or isn't it? I assumed the issue was that op had built right up to the boundary of her own land.
She wouldn't be allowed to allow drainpipes, guttering, etc to overhang either.

Overhangs, roof etc are allowed. We don’t own the air above.
But OP will struggle cleaning out any gutters if they overhang without an easement giving her access rights to do so. Which I’m guessing she doesn’t have. So that will be another potential problem for the neighbour

BungleandGeorge · 25/04/2023 15:24

Your husband was told no and then took advantage after the neighbour died. You can’t have a window that opens on to someone else’s garden! Him putting something in front is not aggressive, you’re the unreasonable ones! I’m very surprised you’ve got permission to have a window at eye height looking into someone else’s garden. There’s no way I’d allow you to Have an opening window, I’d do the same as your neighbour because you are devaluing his house.

Snapdragonsoup · 25/04/2023 15:25

Well, if I have understood correctly your DH took the opportunity after the elderly owner died and property was in the process of being sold to put the window in so it looks a bit underhand. I am surprised you got planning permission for it without any restrictions such as window must be frosted and not open outwards considering it is right on the boundary. If you havent done so already I would check your planning application and the approval along with any conditions imposed to make sure you do actually have permission for what is built.

I bet the agents didn’t inform any potential buyers.

Even if you have planning permission the owners may still have rights to stop you opening the window outwards into their garden (as it looks like it would be trespassing). You probably dont have any right of access to clean it from their side either.

You property looks like it might have been developed from the sale of an existing garden plot. Is that correct?

The wall adjoining the upset neighbour might be a party wall (if it straddles the boundary) in which case they would have the right to make use of it for a building of their own adjoining your bathroom.

Itsmebutnotme · 25/04/2023 15:25

bathroomwindowargh · 25/04/2023 12:21

Inward opening window.
God how much do I wish these words had crossed my mind - but they didn't, and I was not in control of any of this. It's too late, window has already cost us and all the inner tiling has been done, to change the window would cost shed loads of money.
We couldn't have a roof window because the garage is higher than the bathroom, i.e. the bathroom is like a box inside the garage, so the top of the bathroom would only open into the inside of the garage.

I think you're all right. DH shouldn't have done it. But now he feels he's being bullied and I'd like to try and do what might help peace to break out, while not abandoning DH. Arggggh!

Why are you defending your DH's behaviour? YABU - as others have said it is a dick move. I would plant leylandii there or put up a shed if I was the new neighbours and I would consider you the nasty neighbours. How you feel if they build something with a window looking into your garden?

AliceOlive · 25/04/2023 15:25

ReadersD1gest · 25/04/2023 15:14

It's not a shared boundary, it's the neighbour's garden? Or isn't it? I assumed the issue was that op had built right up to the boundary of her own land.
She wouldn't be allowed to allow drainpipes, guttering, etc to overhang either.

Looking at the diagram, it seems more likely they both bought property that was historically like this. Maybe it was all one property at one time. Form the odd shape, it looks like she's in an old carriage house or outbuilding. The wall of her home is what makes his garden "private".

Certainly they didn't let someone put a new build right smack on a boundary without even a few feet of setback. I don't think that happens much in modern times unless they are row homes or other properties with adjoining walls.

We really need to know the timing of when he bought the land vs. when the window was installed.

MysteryBelle · 25/04/2023 15:26

Are you saying your house, its walls, sits right at the property line of two neighbors? And you seem to have no garden or yard or any buffer around your house? So strange, you’re right it’s a weird house.

That said, your dh got official permission to put in window, and that’s that. Ignore the neighbor. I mean, totally ignore them.

I would have to move if I were you. That is the weirdest layout for a house basically on no grounds whatsoever just the footprint of house and garage.

DrPrunesquallor · 25/04/2023 15:27

AliceOlive · 25/04/2023 14:58

Have to say I am really surprised by all of these responses. If the window was installed after the house was under contract, that is one thing. If not, this couple bought a house with a window in a shared wall overlooking their garden and now are angry about it.

People have a right to a little air and light in their homes. If you don't like that, why buy a house with a shared wall attached to your garden?

This really is a first world problem for the neighbor. I hate that phrase, but seriously! Most people in the world don't have a garden or a garden wall, never mind one that is completely private and enclosed.

This is true.
But the neighbour equally has a right to block the window with a fence.
Yet OP seems surprised by new owners reaction when it seems perfectly normal

MysteryBelle · 25/04/2023 15:27

Yes it looks like it was one property at some time and that owner gave over a piece of the outer edge for a relative to put a house there, as far away from main house but still at the property line. Bonkers.

SofiaSoFar · 25/04/2023 15:28

@DrPrunesquallor

Overhangs, roof etc are allowed.

No they're not.

We don’t own the air above.

Yes you do.

Madamecastafiore · 25/04/2023 15:30

Can't you stop the stupid pretence and just ask bloke to remove bit of wood now you've put the limiter on the window (your DH is a cheeky Fucker who took advantage of the old lady dying to get what he wanted by the way).

HairyKitty · 25/04/2023 15:31

If op has planning permission for an opening window and property owner didn’t object (when the council will surely have invited them to or required the home owner to invite them to), I don’t see how the neighbour is in any position to complain now? If OP has followed appropriate permissions/regulations then they’ve done nothing wrong.

OP what you need to know is what does the law say about this. Did you have the right to put the window in? Does this convey the right for it to open? If so what recourse is now available to you?

If the permission didn’t give the right for it to open then you can’t exactly complain now.

darjeelingrose · 25/04/2023 15:32

What happens if the bloke then decides this is the perfect spot for his new shed/summer house/ garden pub? I think this is what is going to happen next, tbh.

GoodChat · 25/04/2023 15:33

HairyKitty · 25/04/2023 15:31

If op has planning permission for an opening window and property owner didn’t object (when the council will surely have invited them to or required the home owner to invite them to), I don’t see how the neighbour is in any position to complain now? If OP has followed appropriate permissions/regulations then they’ve done nothing wrong.

OP what you need to know is what does the law say about this. Did you have the right to put the window in? Does this convey the right for it to open? If so what recourse is now available to you?

If the permission didn’t give the right for it to open then you can’t exactly complain now.

The neighbour wasn't the owner at the time.
The previous owner objected so OP's husband got planning permission before the house was sold after they'd died

DrPrunesquallor · 25/04/2023 15:33

OP
Do you have an easement for your outward opening window.
Or does it just open a tiny bit and not past the line of the enclosing wall.

EggInANest · 25/04/2023 15:34

Overhangs, roof etc are allowed. We don’t own the air above.

Wrong. Almost certainly, if in the UK.

Otherwise we'd all be building big wooden tree houses and decks that cantilever out over our neighbour's gardens, wouldn't we?

And why do you think it is allowed to cut tree branches that encroach over our boundary?

Itsmebutnotme · 25/04/2023 15:34

AliceOlive · 25/04/2023 14:58

Have to say I am really surprised by all of these responses. If the window was installed after the house was under contract, that is one thing. If not, this couple bought a house with a window in a shared wall overlooking their garden and now are angry about it.

People have a right to a little air and light in their homes. If you don't like that, why buy a house with a shared wall attached to your garden?

This really is a first world problem for the neighbor. I hate that phrase, but seriously! Most people in the world don't have a garden or a garden wall, never mind one that is completely private and enclosed.

That others don't have "a garden or a garden wall, never mind one that is completely private and enclosed" is the OP and their neighbours problem, why? It is possible to have a discussion with out references those that may have less.

Strictlyfanoftenyears · 25/04/2023 15:34

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of it, the easiest neighbourly solution would be to stop opening the window. However I dont understand why your partner doesnt sort out his own mess. He applied for planning without your agreement so its his problem to sort. I would keep well out of it. If neighbour asks you about it, refer him to your partner.

DrPrunesquallor · 25/04/2023 15:35

GoodChat · 25/04/2023 15:33

The neighbour wasn't the owner at the time.
The previous owner objected so OP's husband got planning permission before the house was sold after they'd died

Also
Planners won’t necessarily be told or given any information that suggests the window is opening out.
At best the drawings will only show that it’s openable.
Can you enlighten us OP as to what the drawings, information looked like.

HairyKitty · 25/04/2023 15:35

So the new buyer of the house wasn’t properly informed by their solicitor of the planning permission op had secured. That’s surely not op’s fault if proper permissions were secured and window meets any requirements in the permission.
The new neighbours gripe should be with their solicitor.

GoodChat · 25/04/2023 15:36

HairyKitty · 25/04/2023 15:35

So the new buyer of the house wasn’t properly informed by their solicitor of the planning permission op had secured. That’s surely not op’s fault if proper permissions were secured and window meets any requirements in the permission.
The new neighbours gripe should be with their solicitor.

Their solicitor isn't the one with a bathroom window opening into their garden

CaroleSinger · 25/04/2023 15:38

I don't understand how you even got permission for a window that opens outwards over someone else's property? It's irrelevant that he can't see it from the house.

HairyKitty · 25/04/2023 15:38

GoodChat · 25/04/2023 15:36

Their solicitor isn't the one with a bathroom window opening into their garden

How is that relevant?
Neighbour bought a house with an opening window in the garden. If all proper permissions were in place, and window meets requirements of the permission, then this is not ops fault in any way.
Maybe I get a new neighbour who complains about my skylight/greenhouse/treehouse. It’s tough if it was pre-existing when they bought it.

Xarrie · 25/04/2023 15:39

What a sly thing to do

I would cover it totally with a shed if it was in my garden

Vroomfondleswaistcoat · 25/04/2023 15:40

Rosula · 25/04/2023 14:44

What would a blind achieve, given that the window is obscured glass anyway?

Means that you can't see anything at all. I guess neighbour doesn't want to see the outline of bare buttocks or people sitting on the loo (if the room is dark and the light is on) and possible accusations of 'looking'. Also means that OP wouldn't have to see neighbour's annoyed face/fence/planting.

Obscured glass just blurs stuff, doesn't stop it being visible.

DrPrunesquallor · 25/04/2023 15:41

EggInANest · 25/04/2023 15:34

Overhangs, roof etc are allowed. We don’t own the air above.

Wrong. Almost certainly, if in the UK.

Otherwise we'd all be building big wooden tree houses and decks that cantilever out over our neighbour's gardens, wouldn't we?

And why do you think it is allowed to cut tree branches that encroach over our boundary?

No. Your examples would not be allowed as not necessary.

However someone could build a bridge over your house or a flyover. If it’s necessary. You do not own the air above. Yes in the UK

Extensions on boundaries can have small overhangs such as roof tiles / barge boards etc. guttering would be stupid without access rights to clean them out.

Planners will approve it.

Personally I think it’s a bit rude and causes so many problems but as an Architect I see it all the time.