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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that this FLY business is just another way of trying to convince women that service is what they are meant for?

452 replies

madamez · 16/02/2008 10:54

We've had house-work-is-what-FAther-Xmas-made-women-for.
We've had housework is the standard on which a woman's morals are judged.
Now we have housework as therapy: FInally Loving Yourself. What's loving about knocking yourself out with drudgery? Surely it's more self-loving to say, bollocks to doing more than the minimum, mess is no big deal and my time is far too precious to wipe skirting boards twice a day?

OP posts:
ludaloo · 18/02/2008 12:42

Worktostaysane...I LOVE this line of yours!..."my dh will clean, cook, shop and whatever else as and when it is needed. if you live with someone who doesnt, well thats not a problem with the Flylady program. you just married a dork."

ROFL.....I certainly married a dork!

lucyellensmum · 18/02/2008 12:44

Someone once suggested to me that doing FLY lady would help with my depression (to be fair my house is a tip and it does get me and my partner down - what we actually need to do is take a couple of days and have a huge sort out). I had a look at the site - i was really scared

lucyellensmum · 18/02/2008 12:47

By blueshoes on Mon 18-Feb-08 12:28:33
Apart from lists, dh and I also email each other loads eg to put dates in our personal diaries, buy milk on way home, little bits of news that we might forget if we waited till we got home.

I hope you don't forget to send sexy emails too

rebelmum1 · 18/02/2008 12:49

spokette it really ought to be in the marriage contract imho save all the bother and rows and domesticity should be on the dating criteria although my dp lied a bit about how house proud he was

ludaloo · 18/02/2008 12:49

In all of this...has anyone actually thought that some women might just "want" to stay at home and bring their children up and make their home a nice place to live in?
They might just "want" to follow FLY....and in that case, what does that make them?

Emprexia · 18/02/2008 12:51

I dont see the problem with Flylady.. you can take what you need from it to help you get a few things done without buying into the whole idea of it.

I'm terrible at getting housework done usually so i thought i'd give it a go.. i had the emails for a few weeks and read some good ideas and tips and its worked.. i've stopped the emails and just do my own thing in my own time now.

Pitchounette · 18/02/2008 12:51

Message withdrawn

rebelmum1 · 18/02/2008 12:54

I don't see anything wrong with wanting to do that but I do fail to see how you can clean your house for 40 hours.

lucyellensmum · 18/02/2008 12:55

ah but blueshoes you talk a lot of sense, well apart from cleaning being good for the soul!! You did say that the busier you are the cleaner your house - funny that, when i was writing up my PhD, my house was spotless!!! But then i hadnt found the wonder of procrastination that is mumsnet.

As for lists, if that is what works for you then fandabidozy - i used to make myself to do lists when i was doing my phd because the work was completely self motivated and it would have been very easy to be busy doing nothing and going round in circles. When i worked as a vet nurse, we all had our duties (so i suppose a list) that we had to get done during the day, but it was very much team work and also reactionary (for want of a better word) and very different every day.

Storage is my problem, that and the monumental amount of shite in my house that either i or DP cannot bear to part with - it has to go.

As for wiping the skirting boards twice a day?? Someone please tell me that people don't actually do that?

lucyellensmum · 18/02/2008 12:57

By ludaloo on Mon 18-Feb-08 12:49:41
In all of this...has anyone actually thought that some women might just "want" to stay at home and bring their children up and make their home a nice place to live in?
They might just "want" to follow FLY....and in that case, what does that make them?

HAPPY? I mean, if thats what they want to do, thats great - some people get happy by climbing mountains or jumping out of aeroplanes, i think they are mad too

rebelmum1 · 18/02/2008 12:58

I agree that it's really important to leave a partner in charge of childcare, especially when it is most inconvenient for them they really need to experience it, you must also leave the house in a right tip for them too and no food in the cupboard apart from a simple pasta for the dd's.

ludaloo · 18/02/2008 13:05

My DH and I have the arrangement where he manages his own business and goes to work to earn a wage...I stay at home to bring the kids up, and take care of our home.

Now regardless of who does what and which parent works and which parent doesn't, and who is female and who is male, and what role is expected of who...

It is only going to work if you are both happy.

I am happy to stay at home, he is happy to go out and work. For us it wouldn't work the other way round.

So all this bollox people are spouting about feminism and blah de blah de blah....
So what!!!!! So what if a woman wants to stay at home and raise the children...if she is happy doing so then that is all that counts...surely.
If the woman is happy to work...then so be it.
FLY isn't trying to make women feel belittled by staying at home....she is trying to help them do their job and feel good about themselves.

Relationships are about fairness and equality and happiness.
If the woman feels happy to tidy the house and look after the kids then what's the problem with her following FLY?
The problems arrise when one person isn't pulling their weight..
If both parents work, then I would expect it only fair that both parents share the house and the raising of the children.
If the arrangement is that one parent works and the other does the house and kids...well then thats the deal...as long as it is fair.

ludaloo · 18/02/2008 13:10

...I am very happy to stay at home and do all that goes with it...It was my choice when we planned a family...and I know it won't be forever, I will no doubt get a job when the kids no longer need me here all day.
But for now..this is my job.
I am happy to do it as long as DH does his job equally. We have a deal, and while we both stick to it, there isn't a problem.

Pitchounette · 18/02/2008 13:13

Message withdrawn

ludaloo · 18/02/2008 13:14

I think in a round about way I have summed the whole debate up in my own view....
Its all about equality...well for me it is anyway.
Feminism is about equality isn't it. I really don't think it matters what job a female does, she wants to be treated fairly.

ludaloo · 18/02/2008 13:18

Pitchounette....yep...you are right....

But I don't understand how someone doesn't have a choice...

ludaloo · 18/02/2008 13:21

If you don't want to stay at home...get a job, and pay someone else to do your housework and raise your children...

Pitchounette · 18/02/2008 13:24

Message withdrawn

rebelmum1 · 18/02/2008 13:26

I don't know why anyone would take issue with someone who chooses to stay at home. For some reason men and women take issue with basic care of oneself and ones home, if you want to live in a pit and are happy that's fine too in my view.

Pitchounette · 18/02/2008 13:26

Message withdrawn

MrsMattie · 18/02/2008 13:27

Pitchounette, in answer to your question: Yes, I do leave my DS with my DH regularly. I agree with the point you made, though. I know loads of women who 'don't trust' their partners to look after their children for more than a few hours at a time. And a few others who 'don't trust' their DH to do housework chores 'properly'.

I think I must be very lucky (and I don't say that in a smug way...it's just that I really believe I must be lucky, judging by a lot of what I read on MN. I didn't realise how common it still is for women to do everything around the house / never have a break from childcare.. ).

lucyellensmum · 18/02/2008 13:27

i love staying at home to look after my DD, i DO find the housework side of things a bit of a drag though. It detracts from the time i can spend with DD.

I have never been very good at housework, and its never really been a problem, although i am at home more now and the mess irritates me more so i do it.

I just think everyone is different. I do feel better when its relatively tidy and there isnt clutter everywhere. But i am not about to start polishing my skirting everyday

rebelmum1 · 18/02/2008 13:30

You always have a choice not to do it. I have had times when things sway more my way and I nip it in the bud by going vegan for a couple of weeks.. or meals with only a plate like poached sardines in toast. It's amazing how just a poached egg on spinach can be filling. Make sure you have a big lunch at work though.

Judy1234 · 18/02/2008 13:42

I think a lot of working mothers particularly those of us who go abroad on business trips sometimes do in fact leave our husbands with the children in sore charge and sometimes over whole weekends. Even my SIL who does not work leaves 2 under 2s with my brother and goes away with girl friends for whoe weekends. I think all men should have that experience and it is very important women do do that - leave men with sold charge for 2 days in a row once women have finished breastfeeding from time to time.

(and on skirting I cleaned skirting at the weekend and I'm a feminist working single mother)

Oblomov · 18/02/2008 13:45

ludaloo is too simplistic. It gets more complicated it , like me, you work part time.
I have taken on board Nookas point about what end result is important to each person.