To think that this FLY business is just another way of trying to convince women that service is what they are meant for?

[madamez]

We've had house-work-is-what-FAther-Xmas-made-women-for.
We've had housework is the standard on which a woman's morals are judged.
Now we have housework as therapy: FInally Loving Yourself. What's loving about knocking yourself out with drudgery? Surely it's more self-loving to say, bollocks to doing more than the minimum, mess is no big deal and my time is far too precious to wipe skirting boards twice a day?

Why should I, Xenia? I am barely in the house, and my days are not taken up with being wife. I am a SAHm right now. Deal with it and get back to the real issue of this thread.

I just thought it was quite interesting and unfair on men with non working wives who surely ought to be keeping house but if the men are happy and the wives that's fine. Perhaps I'm more on the side of these US fundamentalist christians than I thought.....

The real issue is why any sane woman wants to be a domestic servant and childcarer if she's got half a brain - most women work and I can't understand how any of them instead want to be home nad serve men who then pay for them. It's a politically objectionable concept.

I do most of the domestic jobs in our household because
~I am at home more often than dh (I work 3 days a week, he works 5) He does plenty of domestic stuff on a Saturday while he's at home with the kids and I am at work, and I get to come home and relax, just as he has been able to do in the week.
~I like to get it all out of the way while the kids are at school/dh is at work so we can have family time after school/work
~It pleases me to have a nice home. FLYing has helped me come to grips with something that I don't find comes naturally. If we could afford a cleaner to do it for me I possibly would be tempted to take one on but possibly not as I actually enjoy homemaking (maybe that makes me odd, but I do!)

I can't see anything wrong with this.
On the FLY threads on MN we seem to take and leave as much as we like from her website - I actually usually post more for the chat than anything housework related sorry FLYers but I do!

I have never heard a self proclaimed feminist criticise and condemn other women quite as much as you, Xenia. Those 'bible belt' Republicans need a woman like you on their side...

i am a sahm xenia not housewife

our relationship works this way - if he did not like it he would bugger off

Xenia presumably whilst you are working someone is caring for your children?

When people are paid to look after kids do we also expect them to hoover and wash up their houses and clean as well? No, we call it a job and pay them.

I have done both, work and SAHM and can safely say the latter was harder work. I never had time to do most housewifely jobs as I was trying hard to occupy the kids making salty stuff for modelling with and taking them to tumble tots.

The research on working mums suggests that even with advances in the role there is still a lot to do to get the balance right and many men cherry pick the best jobs.

I don't understand the distinction between being a sahm and a housewife.

What is the difference?

Because people are saying that they don't have cleaners then they say in lofty tones that they are not housewives.

WTF?

The poor blokes are getting a bit of a rough ride. They get to go out to work and do all the earning. Then they come back to dirty houses.

Those posters are in a minority in fairness but that does not sound like a good deal for the men.

More repugnant is the idea of women as fly ladies.

You're all on a different planet.

And it's not a nice place

Have any of you ever read The Handmaid's Tale?

I think the difference is sahm- stay at home with pre school children.
Housewife- stay at home even after the youngest has gone to school.

Regarding 'The Handmaid's Tale' I have read it, didn't see any mention of housework in it.

It must be a generational thing. The kind of attitude that says your dh should come to a sparkly clean house as a sign for your gratitude for 'letting' you stay at home. What a nasty hard faced cynical view of relationships. Sod that- I take the dc out to friends houses or the park or playgroup and we usually stay out all day.
What would it benefit anyone by me staying in and cleaning all day?
The dc would be bored and I would too.

Well Mrs Mattie (who's husband didn't marry her for her housekeeping abilities) and PaulaYates (who's not a housewife, no, not she) have husbands who must come back to less than perfect houses.

So I am entirely confused about this. It doesn't compute.

Either the men get exploited (the minority of posters) with what sounds like a pretty bad deal to me

Or the women do. They go around cleaning skirting boards but putting their makeup on first (are they putting a brave face on it?)

I refer you to the passages about moisturising yourself with butter

It seems relevant somehow.

GOD. I am so with Madamez

think this fly business is one of those if people like it then i leave them to it..i dont have any pronblem with it at all

tho fat chance of me doing it lol

Have I missed something? How do the men get exploited?

Quattrocento, Offred didn't do housework or look after children, she was never a SAHM or a housewife.

"As a SAHM I have NEVER taken on more of a share of the housework. OK, I do usually cook dinner, but that's where it ends. We share cleaning and tidying. My job is to look after my son, not to fanny around in an apron all day playing house. Maybe I am in the minority (I probably am) but my husband and I are both very happy with the arrangement. I don't want to spend more than the absolute bare minimum of my time cleaning, and my husband has never found the housewifely type sexy"

Just read that post willya?

It says housework is NOT for me. No. I am too GOOD for housework. My husband (coy coy coy) doesn't find housewives sexy.

What the FUCK is all that about precisely?

Anyone capable of posting that NEEDS to read the Handmaid's Tale as a matter of priority.

A woman's place is not in the wrong.

I like that as an expression.

What I mean is that all that eyelash batting crap is so wrong and morally repugnant as a means of getting out of housework

Ditto just skivvying

Why can't women just pick up their share? Their fair share? What is so hard about that?

Most women are very judgemental of each other.
I think women give each other a hard time on the whole- about weight, children, clothes for example.
Feminisn tried hard to eradicate this by championing the sisterhood but while women hate themselves and each other so much no- one will be happy.
We all make our choices in life and instead of celebrating differences and embracing each other we criticise any woman who is not like us.

very wise words

I thought it supported both strands actually

Offred had only one function - to breed - therefore this is relevant to those who argue that they are sahms rather than housewives

So who does the housework? The Marthas, I believe.

Great choices. Can't we be more than that? Can't we?

THe Handmaid's Tale does not mention caring for children or housework and hence has zero relevence to this debate.

Quattro- why does it bother you that some women don't do 'their fair share'. Mrs Mattie and her husband are happy with the arrangement.
Why does that annoy you so much?