To ask why some MNers are so against helping out families with young children?

[traytablestowed]

That really. I sense it's been done to death on here but nonetheless, I am interested to hear from retired people who don't help out with their grandchildren - why not? As a parent who has been surprised by the lack of support from my own family, I'm actually curious to hear all points of view - all comments welcome and I'm not looking for a fight here.

When my first grandchild was due my daughter asked me if I would like to provide childcare when she went back to work. I was both flattered that she would trust me with her baby and horrified at the thought of giving up so much of my freedom. I said no (thank you!) and explained that I felt that as well as it being too big a commitment for me, I wanted an easy grandma relationship where I had fun and gave treats to my grandchildren. But I said I would always be happy to babysit, have my grandchild stay, and be available as an emergency back-up.

He's a teenager now our relationship brings me so much joy, he still comes for little holidays with me (his choice) and over the years I've occasionally picked him up from school when he's been ill, babysat sometimes, and stepped in last minute when his professional childcare hasn't been available. But I don't think they've never relied on me being available or resented me going abroad for a few weeks or just saying 'no, sorry I'm not available'.

I think younger women don't understand that we get tired as we get older, and that tbh there's a time limit in ones interest and ability to look after young children. I have friends who can't seem to say no and are absolutely exhausted and seem resentful of the amount of childcare they're doing for their grandchildren.

Fifteen years on and I now have three grandchildren. I love them all dearly and we have the best times, but I tire even more easily. So I'm still here for treats, for the good times and for emergency helping out but absolutely no way are my grandchildren my responsibility!

I have 1, 2 and 4yo DC.

my mum is 76 and lives 400miles away, and my dad is dead.

my MIL is 81 and my FIL is 90 next week. They live an hour away.

realistically how much help or support do you think any of them could possibly give me?

This is how I look at it. I would have zero interest in providing childcare on a regular basis but babysitting so parents can enjoy a night out or just so I could enjoy some time with my grandkids sounds completely normal and reasonable.

Sometimes I think parents underestimate how difficult their children can be to babysit though. It's asking a lot to expect a grandparent to manage a ridiculously fussy eater, a frequent tantrum thrower or a child that can only be put to bed after a 2 hour extravaganza of pre-sleep routines that they fight strenuously.

Or parents that provide a list of "Don'ts" a mile long: no television, only organic carrot sticks for a snack, etc.

So while I do find it odd when grandparents show no interest whatsoever, I often wonder if there's more to the story....

Totally understand and agree that regular childcare shouldn't be expected. But I just can't understand the grandparents who never help out. An evening or 2, or a couple of days out a year. Just stinks of can't be bothered.

my parents live in a different country and fly to me to help with childcare regularly - I am dropping my daughter at theirs for a week in the summer so I can go to glastonbury - they do so much for me and i really appreciate it !

they have said to me and my sister that they wouldn't be up for doing a regular childcare while we were at work though - as in a day a week instead of nursery or whatever as they feel it would make them too tied - and they like to travel and have days out etc - think that's fair enough! (they couldn't help me with that kind of childcare anyway as i chose to live far away)

But - i don't understand why some grandparents are so unwilling to help tbh

they chose to have children in the first place.

I don't think GPs should be expected to do regular childcare so parents can work. However I do find it surprising that some grandparents don't ever offer to help out at all. I'd assume that grandparents would either want to help their children during a busy period of life or indeed would like to spend some time with their grandchildren and so would be happy to e.g. babysit a few times a year.

We don't live near our parents so it has never been an option but if we had grandparents nearby who could have babysit one evening every couple of months that would have transformed our lives (and improved our marriage) when the DC were young. When my DC have kids if I'm in good health I will absolutely offer to babysit regularly.

I find that quite weird, too. I had my son in a different country to all of both our families, so we had a child in the full knowledge we would be paying for every hour of childcare. Most people we knew were in the same boat, so the assumption that the 'norm' was an assumption of free childcare from grandparents was completely alien (until we moved to a village in Leicestershire where everyone seemed to settle near at least one set of parents, and there were virtually no paid option for childcare) apart from on here. The shrieking about evil older siblings whose children were being looked after by Granny, who now didn't have time/capacity for any more, was of particular fascination.

We actually have moved back to our home country and now live in the same city as both sets of parents, but although mine will help in an emergency (DH's are now too unwell) and are down as emergency contacts at his school, I wouldn't dream of expecting babysitting as a regular thing.

I’d say it comes down to two things, if it’s a given that they like you and your children 😂, 1) they are tired, have health issues, or just don’t feel they have the energy, they may seem to be fine but as you get older, the energy level is not endless and commitment to various things is not as much. It’s not personal 2) they’re afraid it will turn into full time childcare and they again just don’t have the energy to devote to that.

*But - i don't understand why some grandparents are so unwilling to help tbh

they chose to have children in the first place.*

And their children presumably chose to have children - and to take on the responsibility that goes with it. People are having children at a later age, therefore grandparents are generally older, and are possibly still working given the increasing retirement age, possibly with aging parents who need care.

There has to be a point when you are no longer responsible for your adult children and the choices they make. Between providing financial support, house deposits, childcare - at what point do you expect your children to be independent? Helping out from time to time is one thing, regular childcare is quite another.

But - i don't understand why some grandparents are so unwilling to help tbh

they chose to have children in the first place.

Dont have GC yet, but I chose to have children because I could afford childcare or we took turns to go out. I would not have chosen to have them if I could not afford childcare. I expect the same of my DC.

My mother is a narcissist who didn’t even contact me to see how I was on the day of my dad’s funeral, my ILs provide some financial help (which we appreciate) but don’t help with our one DC at all. When I was in hospital overnight for a procedure they grudgingly took DC for 1 night and messaged DH the next day to see if he could come earlier to pick up as they “were tired”. I was recovering from general anaesthetic.

It has been utter hell not having a single family member to lend a hand especially given I have a debilitating illness, DH works a lot of nights etc. Fortunately we have found excellent paid for childcare but it isn’t the same at all. I suspect most of those claiming you shouldn’t expect help have had plenty of help but don’t acknowledge or admit it.

As for why someone should expect help from family members, it’s because that’s how most mammals have developed. In big family units.

My in-laws are as hands on with DS, as it’s possible to be when not living locally. When he was tiny and I was struggling with PND, they came up every Monday to help out; when I had an operation that meant I couldn’t lift DS, they moved in for 6 weeks and basically looked after both of us; and now they have him for a few days most holidays. They have a wonderful relationship with him.

@LaLaLaLaLolaaa - how old are your children? Also how old were your parents when you were born? I'm 64 and a great-grandma, there's no way I could look after a toddler now. Older kids yes, but I wouldn't want to commit to school runs or specific days as I have a life of my own. When my grandchildren were young I had weekend sleepovers but I was working, and by the time I retired they were all teens so had their own lives.

My mum has DD (20 months) one day per week and I’m eternally grateful. Nursery is extortionate (and fees keep rising!). She always said she would even before I was pregnant as her own mum, my Grandma, had done the same for her. She is retired, well off and in good health though. I imagine it’s very different for older grandparents with different circumstances.

I admit I would be a bit baffled if my own mum told me she didn’t want to do it anymore because she ‘enjoyed her freedom’ though. It’s only one day a week and when she goes away (which she does, lots!) we find an alternative. She loves spending time with DD and finds her friends who refuse to do grandchild care so they can potter around the garden centre or go for lunch regularly quite odd. We are a very ‘family comes first’ bunch though.

Personally I think the GPs who dont want to help out, are missing out! My DGM practically co parented me as a child .Was involved anyway ,but stepped up tmthe plate when DF died suddenly leaving DM as a SP in the 70s! My own DMh ,SD and ILs all babysat for us ,and even DGM did a couple of times! (I was a SAHM by choice)I would love to be a Grandmother one day ,and cant wait to get "stuck in " to trips out ,stories and so on .I was a Nursery School Teacher and really love children.Often people seem to say they are "terribly busy" but often seem at a loose end somehow.

Dh and I are nearing retirement and we have sooooo many plans! Being tied to childcare does not feature in any of them 😄. We’ll do emergencies, high days and holidays, but regular weekly childcare? Fuck that!

I think at least to some degree it depends on your own life experience. My parents had no outside help of any kind at all. We had no extended family close by and I don't think anyone ever babysat us ever. So I had no expectations that family members would help me with my children and I never asked anyone to.
I don't plan on doing a lot of childcare if I ever have grandchildren either and I don't think my DCs will be expecting it. Well I know my DD doesn't as we have discussed it - my DSs aren't yet at that stage in their lives. I doubt they will end up living very near me anyway. Obviously I wouldn't leave them in the lurch in an emergency but I won't be providing routine childcare, and definitely won't be having any overnight stays barring emergencies. Between my own children any my work I have had more than enough sleepless nights to last me a lifetime thanks.
I can understand though that if you have been brought up in a big extended family where your grandparents and the wider family had a big part in your upbringing that you would see that as important and probably expect it. But I wasn't, and I don't.

For me it's about paying it back/forward. My parents had lots of help from my grandparents when we were growing up- regular childcare and the lots of school pick ups. My parents are very helpful and love to spend time with their dgc.

As the mother of sons I expect a lot will depend on how I get on with my DiL. I'm quite happy to be "second granny" but equally have no intention of hovering silently in the wings ready to serve then melt away on command, as per the Mumsnet ideal. I'd be delighted to help out (even regularly) as part of a warm and mutually respectful relationship but if the only way I can see my grandchildren is by doing childcare then I guess I'll do other things.

Counter question:
Why do some people have kids and then maki it into everyone else’s problem?
We didn’t consent to this.
If you demand other’s to be free nannies, gift givers, helpers, listen to endless rants about how hard and awful it is, you should have consult with us before you went and got knocked-up!

I suspect most of those claiming you shouldn’t expect help have had plenty of help but don’t acknowledge or admit it.

I have no practical family help with my kids, and I don’t expect it tbh. I have friends who can help with emergency bite but mostly we work it out between their dad and I. While it would be great to have someone take them off my hands every now and again, I chose my path and it’s fine most of the time.

This is an interesting point of view, and I've thought about it, to directly answer it I would say: I learnt about parenting from my own parents - as their child I saw how they did it first hand! So I assumed that when I became a parent myself it would be similar, and would therefore include a similar amount of family support that they happily (from what I recall) took advantage of.

That hasn't happened! They haven't told me why. I haven't asked. Started this thread to try to understand their viewpoint - I'm hearing loud and clear that it might be an age issue (they would NEVER admit this, but they are older than my GPS were when I was little, so could be)

My mum’s mum was 44 when her first grandchild was born. My grandfather had 20 more years at work. It was common for wives not to work or only work part time.

It wouldn’t be any great hardship to a non-working granny to have her grandchildren after school, or whatever. Likely the grandchildren’s mother wasn’t working either, until the children went to school.

Obviously logistically, that’s very different from having grandchildren when you are both retired and a good bit older, where the mother is working from five months postpartum.

Just to add to my point - I "assumed" unconsciously I guess, I didn't sit down and think "my parents will provide x amount of support x times a month and I will be disappointed with anything less"

My kids are all over the uk. Which one should I live near?

As an adult I've cared for my grandpa, my granny and my mum. I'm still caring for an elderly family member (in their 80s).

I still work ft. Wfh. I am also physically disabled. I'm in my 50s.

How much more do you expect me to do?

I had no help when mine were young by the way