To ask why some MNers are so against helping out families with young children?

[traytablestowed]

That really. I sense it's been done to death on here but nonetheless, I am interested to hear from retired people who don't help out with their grandchildren - why not? As a parent who has been surprised by the lack of support from my own family, I'm actually curious to hear all points of view - all comments welcome and I'm not looking for a fight here.

It's a distinction without a difference, really, as you're still expecting help from them either way, aren't you?

At the end of the day, there are lots of ways you can show you care about someone, and providing childcare for your children is only one of them. Choosing not to provide childcare (for whatever reason) doesn't mean that you don't care.

I feel like retirement is for grandparents to spend however they want - that could be doing childcare, either regularly or occasionally - but equally they may want to travel, or refuse to commit to things, or only help out in dire emergencies. And they should be able to say "no" without being made to feel guilty, or like they don't care. I would also say that providing childcare doesn't necessarily mean you care either, or that you're good person.

It's a distinction without a difference, really, as you're still expecting help from them either way, aren't you?

@coffeecupsandwaxmelts I guess so. I think I've gotten a bit defensive because a few people have suggested that my feelings come from a place of entitlement, but I don't think they do. I've not made my parents feel bad or even discussed it with them, but I can't help how I feel.
I am trying to get to a point where I see the situation as you have outlined it.

I think it's important to recognise that feelings aren't always logical.

That doesn't mean they're not valid or that you're not entitled to feel the way you do, of course.

You feel your parents should offer help with the children - they feel as though its not their job to provide childcare. Neither of you are wrong, necessarily, you just have different views on the matter.

"I thought I'd get help from my family", which roughly translates to a general feeling that your family would help you out if needed because they want to - because they care about you.

@traytablestowed I understand where you are coming from. I think we all have had preconceived notions about how things will be: marriage, children, career, etc. Then when they don't turn out as we'd imagined there's disappointment, maybe even resentment. That's just being human.

Here's another way to look at it: If you had an overall good, safe childhood and your parents loved you, provided for you to the best of their ability, protected and supported you....well, you've won one of life's lotteries. A huge number of people never experienced that. So anything in addition to that - like your parents playing a large role in your children's lives - is really just a bonus.

I think we all have had preconceived notions about how things will be: marriage, children, career, etc. Then when they don't turn out as we'd imagined there's disappointment, maybe even resentment. That's just being human. - I think this is a really good point @GulfCoastBeachGirl - and it also means that if other people seem to have the life/support you imagined you'd have yourself, it can feel doubly unfair.

As I said earlier, I think some people might be wary of offering help- it so often seems to be taken the wrong way. "My mil offered to help me with the children today. I'm furious-she obviously thinks I'm a dreadful mother."

This is a very helpful comment, thank you. You are of course right, and in actual fact I have to admit that this is very much a first world problem! I appreciate the perspective!

Yes, and also when people assume that you do have the help, and you don't, it is a bit salt in the wound (happens frequently to me!)

Grandparents are often quite a bit older than they were a generation ago - and small children are often exhausting.

I did some regular childcare for the first Gdc, but 2 very little ones was going to be too much - by then I was 68. I still did one offs and emergencies - still do - but I still put down my dose of shingles to being utterly exhausted after a week’s emergency care of an under 2, while the small baby was in hospital.

Its hard for sure. I remember dropping my husb to hosp had to get a neighbour to watch our kids. Its depressing when you cant call your mother. I still feel this even years later when she needs loads help. You think well nobody helped us out!! Be thankful if you have good backup.

As Whitty said you shouldn't automatically assume that illness will come in old age.mumsnetters seem to think that people are dead at 60 and 70 or shuffle about.my mates mother at 87 chops down trees.its the prescriptive lives that are led on mumsnet. . The rules... jeez

For me, it’s not really about getting childcare. I’m happy to pay for nursery and not to go out very often, I feel I signed up for that when I had children.

It’s about the fact that a relationship between grandparent and grandchild can be such a beautiful thing, but it does require effort on the grandparents’ part - as does any relationship with a child. And I just feel sad that my children don’t have that relationship with their grandparents because my parents can’t really be bothered.

You can bet my parents post about their wonderful grandchildren all over Facebook though. But the photos they post as if they were there are ones we’ve taken and sent them. That rankles a bit.

I don't know how I shall feel about this when the time comes. We were elderly parents at 43 because that was how life turned out, but we're nearly 70. Our only child is 24 and the last thing on their mind is marriage and family because there's a career to come in between, so on balance it seems unlikely that we shall be in a position to offer a lot more than planned visits or dire emergencies. I'm fit and we are both fairly well, but wrangling toddlers at 80... somehow I doubt it.

Let’s be real, your mate’s mum is in the minority though. My grandmother is 83 and is very into walking and recently went trekking in Vietnam. No one on the trip was the same age as her. Most of her friends have either lost their spouses, have health problems, have had a major operation/illness etc. She is very much in the minority. However most of them aren’t being looked after by family either.

Because when you are having sex in your 20s and 30s, although you may be thinking about the consequences of pregnancy, you don't think ahead to your 60s and think that you will be expected to look after your offspring's offspring.

Some people are not material (or paternal) and once their childrearing is done, that's it for them. I chose to have one child, so I hope he doesn't end up having six.

And then there is the simple fact that people are still working in their 60s and when they have time off they'd rather do interesting things with it, rather than change nappies. They may not be in good health, either.

My mum has helped out although doesn't live close by, so has been able to pick and choose what she does. But my in-laws were much older, had already had several grandchildren and weren't willing or probably able to help. My father was also older and unable to help.

as if family members pitching in with childcare is some sort of new concept, rather than something that has been happening for literally thousands of years.

Children moving in with their elderly parents/moving their elderly parents in to care for them in their old age even if they are infrim/bedbound/incontinent has also happened for many generations. It was also normal to subsidise your elderly relatives if you had an income and they didn't. Both not so much now.

Maybe less grandparents are inclined to help because they are already getting back less in return than older generations, whilst still being expected to pitch in with childcare often at a much older age than their predecessors

Given the way many people on here talk about and treat their parents it’s no wonder they don’t want to help.

What I find even odder is the number of parents of young children on here who won't help each other out! The "my little family" narrative is very depressing.

There are posters who seem to think that it all has to be their way. Which is absolutely fine, until they need hands on helping out. FFS, at that crisis you take any help going. IMO.

A few days of a form of care you might not have chosen is way better than no care, surely.

I wouldn't want to provide fulltime childcare but am looking forward to spending time with my GS. I find a lot of adult activities rather boring - only so many garden centres anyone can visit! Therefore I am looking forward to trips to the park, zoo etc. However my DD isn't a pushy type of mum and I'm prepared to listen to ideas of modern parenting. Too many young mothers have very rigid views, expecting parents and in-laws to parent exactly how they want and making unreasonable demands. This reduces the pleasure of looking after GC and makes us stressed and feel worthless - remember your parents raised you! I think you have to be a very relaxed parent if you want free childcare. If you favour strict rules and regimes a nursery is a better option.

My parents live a very long plane ride away so help of any sort is impossible. But they will not (when visiting or we are visiting them) even take the DCs for an afternoon so DH and I can go out for lunch or even just do the shopping. They say they raised their kids and it is up to us. But they are quick to brag about the DCs to others and show their photos to everyone. I occasionally have a bit of resentment about it as it would be nice if when staying with us DH and I could go out for dinner or whatever. We have not had a dinner just the two of us since the older one was born 14 years ago.

DH's parents are dead so no help there clearly! DH's siblings live too far as well. I do sometimes look with envy at people who have very hands on parents. Two other families I know had the GPs literally move countries so they could live near their GCs. Next door in one case and in the house in the other.

I am 65 next birthday. I work part time 6 days a week, 6 hours a day. I've just logged off for Sunday.
I am absolutely tired out. I have worked 43 years. I could not possibly look after grandchildren but I don't want to. And when I get the state pension, and can finally retire, I want a few years for myself.
I really think your expectations are too much.
And no, nobody ever looked after my dcs that I didn't pay to do it. DHs parents lived abroad. Mine just didn't. They needed looking after themselves.

I think biggest difference is that for this generation of grandparents, both will work to retirement age. Many in full time roles.

For prior generations mostly
the grandmother was SAHM.

For me, retirement from a full on profession role will probably happen in similar time frame as grandchildren. I was an older mom, as are many of my peers.

I want freedom to travel and do hobbies when I retire. Life is unpredictable, and who know how long we can enjoyment our retirement. One of our good friends died of a heart attack just months after retirement.

I will definitely help my DC in an emergency. I hope to help my DC in an ongoing regular basis, so long it fits in with my own plans (and fingers crossed, health allowing)

But I have worked hard since my early
20s. I will grab those early years of retirement and make the most of them.

And no, I didn’t have help with my DC growing up. We moved away and my husband and I managed just fine without help. Sure it was hard at times, but I did have some really good friends and we helped each other out a lot.