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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have read her emails?

235 replies

lumpkins · 23/04/2023 19:57

I work with a lady who has been at the same workplace for 30 years. She knows everyone, gossips about everyone… you know the type!
I started 2 years ago and we work very closely together. She is incredibly kind to me, offering advice, cups of tea, giving me the ‘heads up’ on who is a good egg, who is not etc.
For various reasons I’ve started to suspect that my colleague is not as nice to me behind my back as she is to my face. One example of this would be her offering to do something to help me and then going to management to complain about me for asking her to help me when it isn’t her job (I am her senior)
This has happened a number of times now. She left her emails logged in so I took the chance to have a nose… not the best move I know, but I was feeling like I was going mad! So I uncovered email after email of her complaining to various people about me, all over the workplace. Most of the things she had complained about were made up.. she is making out I am a complete bitch to her but it’s completely false as we get on fine!
I wanted to take my findings (screenshots of 12 emails) to management to complain as my name has been repeatedly tarnished in her complaints, but I was wrong to look at her emails so should I just forget it and move on??

OP posts:
HaveSomeIntrospect · 24/04/2023 00:18

I haven’t read the full thread, but I would like to print out that a work email address is not subject to the same privacy rights as a private one. Especially if colleague was logged onto a shared computer, she has no expectation of privacy.

HaveSomeIntrospect · 24/04/2023 00:21

#point out, not print out!

Kennykenkencat · 24/04/2023 00:21

SAR request because you don’t believe management when they say she hasn’t complained about you. Which was perfectly true even prior to you looking the emails

AliceOlive · 24/04/2023 00:25

Kennykenkencat · 24/04/2023 00:21

SAR request because you don’t believe management when they say she hasn’t complained about you. Which was perfectly true even prior to you looking the emails

How is this going to help the OP?

She’s not indicated anyone is unhappy with her or her work. She’s been told by management there is no problem. Clearly they don’t want to deal with this drama.

SarahDippity · 24/04/2023 00:28

It’s possible that she has deleted replies from her inbox, but not thought to delete from her outbox. So you can’t know for sure that nobody has responded.

I’d maintain silence for now, but keep the knowledge. Some day somebody will mention a particular project, and work done, and - you say you are more senior - you could reasonably ask her to copy you on all email threads pertaining to x. Be on your guard, and ensure you are scrupulous in all your comms - ‘thank you for your offer of help on y, but this is under control.’

AnnieSnap · 24/04/2023 00:37

To all these posters getting their knickers in a twist because you checked through your staff members emails, I think it depends on company policy if that’s a problem. Companies differ regarding tolerance for the misuse of emails. Some would not have a problem with a manager checking emails if they had a specific concern about a staff member’s working practice. I suggest having an off the record chat with someone from HR, expressing your concern that this staff member may have been undermining the cohesion of the team, including undermining you.

It was ill advised of you to become friendly with the team gossip, but you will realise that know. My advice, always keep a professional distance from staff you manage until long enough has gone by that you can be confident of someone enough to become their friend. You need to make it clear (in a supportive and pleasant way) that you are the team Manager, not one of the girls.

Good luck with it!

snitzelvoncrumb · 24/04/2023 00:39

At least you know where you stand. Be polite and friendly with her, don’t ask her for help and wait for her to do or say something inappropriate and go to HR about her behaviour. Let them know how toxic she is and let them deal with her.

Fraaahnces · 24/04/2023 00:52

I’m actually wondering if the office Dolores Umbridge deliberately left her PC on in an effort to catch the OP snooping and thereby have cause to get her fired. She sounds devious enough to do this kind of crap.

lumpkins · 24/04/2023 00:58

Fraaahnces · 24/04/2023 00:52

I’m actually wondering if the office Dolores Umbridge deliberately left her PC on in an effort to catch the OP snooping and thereby have cause to get her fired. She sounds devious enough to do this kind of crap.

It has crossed my mind. In the ‘stolen’ money incident she did an obvious set up, leaving the filing cabinet open with her handbag deliberately showing. It’s was all very Miss Marple 🙄 I thought it was strange at the time but didn’t close the filing cabinet. The next morning the “I got to the shops to spend my £100 cash (as you do 🙄) and it was….. gawn!”

OP posts:
Fraaahnces · 24/04/2023 01:19

Yep - this woman’s up to all kinds. I think with this kind of nutrasweet colleague, you have to go through everything absolutely by the book. Document everything - including that she left her computer open on x date and that you either left it or turned it off. That way if these emails are brought up, you have this to come back to. (Just don’t make it the very first item you have chosen to document IYSWIM.)
Then as others have suggested, email her any work requests “As discussed…”
Any time she asks to help with anything, email a follow up answer “Thank you for your kind/generous/thoughtful offer to help with x, but as I have explained previously, it is a requirement of my position to complete this task/these tasks myself.”
If you know for certain (get the vibe) that she is prioritizing watching you doing your job instead of achieving her own responsibilities, that would be a good opportunity to also add, “I would like to bring to your attention my previous request for you to complete “x,y,z tasks” as soon as possible. Thank you.”

(That is polite office speak for “Stay in your lane, Bitch.”)

Be prepared for this to stress her out and expect her to up her backstabby game-playing. Your professional conduct must be impeccable. If this is the case, then cracks will begin to appear VERY quickly.

After you have established a pattern of communicating with this woman via email,
perhaps you could start setting her up by emailing her a list of tasks from her own job description that she may be falling behind on, make a point of asking why they haven’t yet been completed - even throw in a very sweet “is everything okay? Please email me if there is anything I need to know that is impacting your ability to complete set tasks so that I can see how we can best meet our client’s needs.”

This is how you beat her at her own game while you are waiting for SAR request to be approved.

Then it’s all guns blazing.

MysteryBelle · 24/04/2023 01:27

Fraaahnces · 24/04/2023 01:19

Yep - this woman’s up to all kinds. I think with this kind of nutrasweet colleague, you have to go through everything absolutely by the book. Document everything - including that she left her computer open on x date and that you either left it or turned it off. That way if these emails are brought up, you have this to come back to. (Just don’t make it the very first item you have chosen to document IYSWIM.)
Then as others have suggested, email her any work requests “As discussed…”
Any time she asks to help with anything, email a follow up answer “Thank you for your kind/generous/thoughtful offer to help with x, but as I have explained previously, it is a requirement of my position to complete this task/these tasks myself.”
If you know for certain (get the vibe) that she is prioritizing watching you doing your job instead of achieving her own responsibilities, that would be a good opportunity to also add, “I would like to bring to your attention my previous request for you to complete “x,y,z tasks” as soon as possible. Thank you.”

(That is polite office speak for “Stay in your lane, Bitch.”)

Be prepared for this to stress her out and expect her to up her backstabby game-playing. Your professional conduct must be impeccable. If this is the case, then cracks will begin to appear VERY quickly.

After you have established a pattern of communicating with this woman via email,
perhaps you could start setting her up by emailing her a list of tasks from her own job description that she may be falling behind on, make a point of asking why they haven’t yet been completed - even throw in a very sweet “is everything okay? Please email me if there is anything I need to know that is impacting your ability to complete set tasks so that I can see how we can best meet our client’s needs.”

This is how you beat her at her own game while you are waiting for SAR request to be approved.

Then it’s all guns blazing.

I like this!

GastonHaugh · 24/04/2023 01:30

I appreciate what I’m about to say won’t be everyone’s approach, and I just also make it clear that I spent over 30 years in a formal and hierarchical corporate environment where I rose to a senior post…

This one is a bitch and the emails are irrelevant. You need to get her on her own and wait till her back is turned and then give her a REALLY hard kick right up the arse. Put all your weight into it, like you’re Johnny Wilkinson scoring for England. Maybe a bit of a run up. But make sure you’ve taken off your shoes so you don’t leave a mark.

Then walk away. If and when she complains you can just laugh and say that you’ve never heard of such nonsense, it’s clearly attention seeking etc. And she will steer clear of you because she knows you’re a bit crackers.

Hope that helps.

AppallinglyReheated · 24/04/2023 02:46

Do not say a word!

If there is any opportunity to do a SAR... do so but you have to have reason to do it in the first place so sit on that for a bit too.

Do NOT agree anything with her verbally and do not accept offers for her to 'help' unless for some reason you have to..

So:

NastyCow: Oh Lumpkins, would you like me to take on Thing 1 today, I have some time...

Lumpkins: No that's fine NastyCow... returns to desk

Email: Lumpkins to NastyCow: 'Further to your verbal offer to help with Thing 1, I am on top of this and able to proceed without your assistance'.

Do this every time, so every time there is an immediate email record that you are declining her offer to help with whatever.

If she KEEPS on offering to help with things you do not need help with, then possibly as her manager, raise the issue that clearly she has too much free time and perhaps could work fewer hours, go part time, fuck off entirely...

Or, I do like the previous posters suggestion, the nuclear Bishop Brennan option... kick her VERY hard up the arse then deny all knowledge!

Busybutbored · 24/04/2023 03:27

AnnieSnap · 24/04/2023 00:37

To all these posters getting their knickers in a twist because you checked through your staff members emails, I think it depends on company policy if that’s a problem. Companies differ regarding tolerance for the misuse of emails. Some would not have a problem with a manager checking emails if they had a specific concern about a staff member’s working practice. I suggest having an off the record chat with someone from HR, expressing your concern that this staff member may have been undermining the cohesion of the team, including undermining you.

It was ill advised of you to become friendly with the team gossip, but you will realise that know. My advice, always keep a professional distance from staff you manage until long enough has gone by that you can be confident of someone enough to become their friend. You need to make it clear (in a supportive and pleasant way) that you are the team Manager, not one of the girls.

Good luck with it!

I think checking the email is a big no-no, and a manager could always request this from IT. I think you actually need to chill a bit, she's clearly quite obvious so other people would have noticed. I'd have a chat with your line manager. You could say you saw an email over her shoulder when you were talking to her or something like that. If also confront her. Most people like thus won't know what to do if they're confronted

Phoebo · 24/04/2023 03:45

Casilero · 23/04/2023 20:40

It would show as the colleague though as it would be done from her pc?

Not that I'd do it myself.

Most places you swipe at the printer

Phoebo · 24/04/2023 03:47

lumpkins · 23/04/2023 21:06

The type of language she uses…
”I’m more than happy to help and will always do what I can for the company, however I find it very unfair that Doris is asking me to do her work for her. I am completely stressed and overworked because of it and it’s making me ill” etc etc
”I noticed that Doris didn’t submit x piece of work, she told me she couldn’t be bothered and will do it when she has time. I am happy to do x piece of work for the flow of the dept”

She definitely is setting you up, does she want your job maybe? It's all very weird! I would also ask, why are you getting/letting her do your work even if she offers, do your own work! She clearly is nuts so tread carefully

palelavender · 24/04/2023 04:51

I think for your own protection I would ask for this thread to be taken down. I would just be very careful about any interactions with her. Do not accept help from her and try to get closer to your other colleagues. Nobody gave you a heads up about what a poisonous person she is, did they?

OrderOfTheKookaburra · 24/04/2023 05:11

From now on, if she offers to help tell her "you'll let her know" and then respond via email. After several offers for help you can ask her if she is happy with her workload, or is she left with lots of free times as you've noticed multiple offers to help with other work.

You say you're her senior, but maybe forward one of these emails where you voice concern over her workload to a manager "suggesting" that maybe her workload needs ti be examined due to the frequency with which she is offering to do work for you, making cups of tea etc.

Cover yourself, and gradually in your emails refute as many of the accusations as you can.

BattleofBeamfleot · 24/04/2023 06:24

Ok @lumpkins here is what I would do. You need to be very strategic when dealing with a manipulator.

Make a note for yourself of the persons who have received those emails and when they got them. You cannot use the emails right now but you may be able to use the information in them if you set about getting it the right way.

I would set up a series of 1:1 meetings with the recipients. Say:

  • it's very delicate and possibly a HR matter, so you'd appreciate if they kept this discussion confidential as you don't want chatter in the work environment to compromise any investigation
  • you've always had a good working relationship with "Jane" and got on well
  • recently you've had reason to believe that what she says to you and what she says about you are two different things
  • give an example ("she offered to help me with X, unprompted. I was happy to let her go ahead, but I discovered later quite by accident that she was saying to "Dave" that I had told her to do it knowing she was overworked and stressed and this was not part of her responsibilities").
  • you suspect this might not be the only time and there are some potential incidents in hindsight where you believe this might have also happened.
  • ask if they have any memories or records of complaints about you from Jane, specifically about your conduct in the workplace (you’re not looking for complaints about your perfume or family life choices) either express or implied.
  • IMPORTANT: make sure you say they don't have to disclose anything to you right now they're not comfortable with, but if they can recall any incident that would be helpful for HR to have a complete picture.

Keep detailed notes about who you spoke to, when you spoke, if they disclosed anything, if they didn't disclose anything about her but indicated that they were aware of the existence of these complaints (assuming this will be eventually escalated, the investigator can do their own digging and your colleague may feel more comfortable talking to your manager or to HR). You don't need to have done your own complete investigation.

You just need to have enough to go on, and a few witnesses. It's quite possible, if there are a number of others involved, that at least one person will supply you with a copy of an email you already have - and bingo, you have legitimate concrete evidence. I’d start with the most recent witness first, and work backwards.

You've had useful advice but do bear in mind that if you submit a subject access request, a SAR will give you information about yourself but not about another person. So you will not be given the name of the speaker or addressee or context (if it's about another person) as these will be redacted. So an email from Jane to John on DD/MM/YY saying "Doris asked me to help her with this particular task today. It's so unfair, I'm really overworked and stressed right now and it's not my job." becomes a single line saying "email dated DD/MM/YY: Doris asked me to help her with a particular task today."

That's if they even go that far - some companies might take the view that the contents of an individual employee's email inbox are not company records and don't merit necessary scrutiny as these aren’t regularly monitored, so you'll get your HR records and your line manager's opinions but they won't proactively search somewhere else for opinions on you without direction that these exist; and then they cannot tell you who sent or received them.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 24/04/2023 06:51

Okthenhun · 23/04/2023 20:53

I came here to say what someone above has a said - if you do a SAR with your name you can obtain the emails that way. Someone more knowledgeable might be able to explain more.

This!

It's the legal way to uncover this information.

PoseyFlump · 24/04/2023 07:11

@lumpkins in this situation I'd be more concerned with what management are thinking. They might love her snitching because they think it keeps them in the loop or they might be totally fed up with her but she's been there too long and they can't be bothered to deal with the problem. I'd be questioning if I want to work for someone who tolerates either of those scenarios.

LadyJ2023 · 24/04/2023 07:18

The more you reply the more rude you sound. And that makes me wonder who really is at fault tbh? Feel sorry for your colleague the way you've gone from nicey nice to downright bitchy,nasty as your replies carry on poster

Florissante · 24/04/2023 07:18

mainsfed · 23/04/2023 21:55

The more you post, the more I feel for your colleague.

And presumptuous doesn’t mean what you think it does.

Agreed.

Florissante · 24/04/2023 07:21

lumpkins · 23/04/2023 22:42

Cheers for enlightening me

Finally. A sensible post by the OP.

fellrunner85 · 24/04/2023 07:32

Great to know that amongst the nasty bitter women on here, some genuinely want to help

OP, I started this thread on your side, but as it's continued you're coming over as increasingly snarky and passive-aggressive.
If you behave like this towards other people at work too, then complaining about this woman isn't going to do you any favours - your stock with senior colleagues may not be as high as you think.
Management are often reluctant to deal with this stuff anyway (hard work, time consuming, lots of paperwork, risks of tribunals etc down the line) so they may just say its six of one and half a dozen of the other, and discipline two troublesome employees as the easier way out.

All those telling you to do a SAR seem to have missed this point. If you just stick in a SAR randomly, you'll look a bit nuts. I mean, you can do it, but it's not usual. You would be advised to wait for a valid reason to do it and in the meantime, keep your powder dry. Don't snoop on emails, be purely professional, rise above it and FFS do NOT (as someone suggested upthread) pull individual colleagues in for chats about what the emails said. Remember Gareth's "investigation" in The Office? That's what you'd look like - really petty and a bit pathetic. You need to be better than that and wait for this woman to be found out of her own accord, which she will.

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