Diane Abbott

[Flowerly]

To say that Diane Abbott is doing her best to help the Labour Party to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?

Hideous antisemitism seemingly not gone away at all and add that to the horrendous misogyny in the Labour Party I wonder at this point why ANYONE would vote for them.

AIBU?

Meanwhile, in the physical world young black girls fear strip searched at school, a Jewish teenager gets scarred by a racist sign and travellers die at a shocking rate compared to the rest of society.

Lets not lose sight of the fact that we all need to avoid stereotyping. Racism flourishes because it takes a small bit of plausibility, distorts that reality then applies it to all people in that group.

Jewish, Irish and Roma people have also been persecuted over the centuries, but not in the way Black African/Asian heritage people have. They have not been owned, shipped, lynched, dehumanised or colonised for their own benefit. Then forced to fight for their freedom and land/resources/countries from imperialist governments, aside from the Irish.

Seriously what ignorance!
What do you mean ‘not in the way’? Are you wanting a league table of persecution? Do you want to start comparing numbers killed of different races on mass scales by historical events? (Do you know the numbers anyway?)

Yes black people are often more visibly identifiable as black. (I say usually as some people eg Meghan Markle identifies as black even though she has a white parent and a black parent).

Jews have been constantly driven from countries all over the world for millennia. They were driven from their home land. They have been systematically executed on a mass scale (estimated between 4.5-7 million). Their only state, one small country, is constantly under threat. They have been persecuted, transported and deported since 600 Bce. From Rome, the Arab world, Turkey, Spain, Russia, Germany, England, etc.

They are constantly dehumanised. They are still being attacked in the uk today. So much so that now extra resource has had to be allocated by the government for additional measures and security:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home-secretary-ramps-up-security-measures-to-protect-jewish-communities

You’re just continuing to contribute to the problem.

We had laws where a person could be executed for being a Gypsy. In Europe they were enslaved. Jews were expelled from Spain and Portugal, oh and England ( Oliver Cromwell let them back in). And of course executed for heresy alongside others. There were pogroms in Eastern Europe where Jews would be hunted down. A long history of demonizing Jews as they were all responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus, even though they weren't alive then. Blood libel about Jews having to murder a Christian child on certain festivals and the ensuing murder of Jews for that. I think it was the Jews in York who were burnt to death in Clifford's Tower in the 12th century. About 150 were murdered or committed suicide rather than be killed. And that's before we get to the Shoah. There is a wealth of historical documents about the treatment of European Jewry, it does not make pretty reading.

I and my children read up on some Jewish history and I helped them read up on Irosh history.

Most English people aren't interested, they weren't even interested why their tax money was funding Northern Ireland they thought they were two bothersome groups of Irish people who were being nasty to the English.

Most people aren't Christian or Jewish they won't know have read the Bible to know the Jews were in Israel thousands of years ago.

Most people want to get on with life when they come up against barriers (it will be different for various people) they will safeguard themselves, the English only paid off WW2 a few years ago, many suffered trauma, lost family and resources in WW2, everyone has limits maybe some think they did enough, each person is different.

I have read the Bible from beginning to end, having been sent to a church school where we read it every morning. I'm also very interested in history and have read extensively on European, British and Irish history. I actually did the history of English /British involvement in Ireland for my 'o'level history. Donkeys years ago! As wise men have put it, those who don't understand history, repeat it.

I am not going to engage with everyone separately but:

First anti-immigration law in this country was against Jews who were running from pogroms.
Before that Britain was proudly Jew free. Jews were banished from Britain, but before that there were pogroms - something you won't learn at school.
Then British mandate in Palestine, then waiting for final solution to do what has to be done. Then being upset that there are living Jews who dear to want a refuge.
Fun fact: the first to die from British weapons during Second World War were Jews. Trying to escape to the British mandate (yes, it was after Hitler forced Germans way to Poland)

Romani people here were "accused" of looking white. FFS, funny how Nazi were claiming that Romani are Asian* so should not live in Europe. Funny, how in places where they live today, they are easily identified as Romani. Even when not speaking the language and not living in tight community as they once used to.

Tell people who spit, throw objects and punches and kicks or just straightforward go for knives that Jews are white and can't be identified that easily - that will solve the problem I guess.

*in this country Asian is also racialised term, but Nazi propaganda suggested that Romani are just Indians, so everything goes full circle now....

As wise men have put it, those who don't understand history, repeat it.

Owen Jones with his History Oxford degree telling everyone he would help them be on the right side of history taught me that some use history as an instruction manual.

Owen Jones understands nothing!

@squirrelslikenuts indigenous peoples across the world have been ‘colonised for their own good’.

Thank you so much for this. I have read about things previously but nothing as detailed as this and to be honest, I didn’t do too deep a dive because I thought it was largely a smear campaign, it was overshadowed by Rachel Riley’s campaign and she didn’t really seem to be saying anything succinct. But clearly I should have done, as this is very damning. Shame, I thought Corbyn had dedicated his life to supporting minority groups and whilst I wasn’t a huge fan of him as a political leader I thought he was least decent.

I guess decency and politics simply don’t go together.

Thanks again for taking the time to share this, it has certainly educated me.

The slogan of some of these groups is 'from the river to the sea'. In other words they want all of the land from the Jordan to the Mediterranean. They don't want anything less. I have pointed out that would mean the eradication of Israel and all of the citizens. People think it would not happen but it's what they want and is why they won't come to any agreement with Israel. They don't want that. They want Israel to cease to exist.

@loislovesstewie the people who want Israel eradicated are just as bad as the extremists in Israel who promote illegal settlements. And the current Israeli government is one of the most hideous right wing anti women's rights, anti LGBT in history. Racism and hatred are human traits and there isn't a single group on whichever side which is free of it. And none of it is better or worse than the rest of it, it is all awful and unacceptable.

I remember watching a Simon Sharma program and there were some Jewish people on a boat in the Thames in medieval times. The captain let them come off the boat on a causeway and wouldn't let them back on when the tide back in so they drowned

Simon Schama was DA's tutor at Cambridge [wikipedia says]

I didn't think he was that old - really surprised to see he's 78

@SpeedSnap

Phillistines

And the point about Israel is that they do actually have elections. There have been no elections for the Palestinian authority since 2006.And I would not want to be a woman or gay in Palestine.

Whichever way you look at it antisemitism is the same as racism and not just like “prejudice experienced by redheads” because they were never made to “sit at the back of the bus”.

IDK if I’m reading completely wrong but my interpretation is actually worse. I think that she mentioned red hair specifically as having red hair might be a fairly common marker of both certain Jewish communities (I know Jews come in many different colouring but red hair is prevalent in some subsects) and Also Irish/Irish travelers. Therefor they might get teased in a way ‘gingers’ (ginger myself, no offence intended) would, but thats just prejudice not racism. Either way the more I dwell on what she wrote the more I cant believe she thought it was acceptable to put those words down, let alone send it to anyone.

It's great that Israel has elections. It's less great that the government that was recently elected has tried to politicise the justice system - against the will of the people it's supposed to serve. It's less great that their chosen leader is still being tried for corruption. And if the extreme Orthodox people in government have their way, you won't see much difference in women's rights and gay rights between Israel and Palestine.

Point is, again, that racism and discrimination are universal and human and to be condemned no matter who is committing it. Diane Abbott should know that.

Not sure that calling out the massive flaws in the Labour Party as it is at present means that I am pro-Tory. I have said several times that I am a left leaning feminist. I am gutted that my party has deserted me but it has and I no longer recognise it.

Are you saying that I am racist? Because do come out and tell me if you think that I am.

So what did you mean by this ?

Flowerly · 15/04/2023 09:36

Sweden has thrown women and girls under the bus and have been trying to keep the rise in rape/sexual assault quiet. It is the wrong kind of perpetrator you see.
suburbophobe · 14/04/2023 22:13

Sweden has mass killings and rapes.

You really can't throw that out there without giving some evidence i.e. a link or two @TodayInahurry

I read two country's news and have not come across that kind of sensationalist reporting. If true it would be all over the worldwide headlines I reckon.
I also have friends in Sweden.

I cannot believe you've said this. Jews have been reviled throughout history. Examples:
The common depiction of the devil with a hooked nose and tail...Jews were believed to have tails
Shylock a completely unpleasant character, written at a time when Jews were banned from England. The names now used as an insult for a money lender
The Yorkshire cricketer who complained about racism was caught calling someone jewy because they were careful with money
The progroms around 1900 across eastern Europe

Gypsies have had the same. The state effectively destroyed their way of life forcing them to settle in one place. Over 1 million romi people we're killed in the holocaust

As a point of interest I am wight, Christian and can trace my family back to 1722 in the West country...But it's possible that one of my ancestors, also white, English Christian was placed into slavery in 1686. It was a common punishment then btw. His "crime" was to be a rebel in the Monmouth rebellion.

So I am sorry if have experienced racism, but I suggest you read David baddiels book Jews don't count

Ah yes, Blackface Baddiel, the new authority on anti-racism.

There are lost tribes, DNA tests would help people have an idea if they could possibly be one.

There are legends of the Irish being a lost tribe.

Jewish, Irish and Roma people have also been persecuted over the centuries, but not in the way Black African/Asian heritage people have. They have not been owned, shipped, lynched, dehumanised or colonised for their own benefit. Then forced to fight for their freedom and land/resources/countries from imperialist governments, aside from the Irish

Seriously?