Steve Barclay taking legal action against nurses

[Gigihadr]

Reasonable or unreasonable?

my opinion is Steve Barclay is utter human garbage

I'm still trying to get my head around a Tory government firmly believing in the right to strike. Isn't it against the ministerial code to tell outright lies?

Clearly the British government do not want anyone to be working for the NHS, nor for British people to have access to healthcare. After all we can all just be replaced by another bunch of serfs from anywhere else in the world can’t we.

@Howpo
how about being less patronising and more supportive of unqualified to qualified schemes?

The old nursing scheme was very successful and hugely oversubscribed with many HCAs desperate to become qualified. And it was a degree programme, 4 years to full qualification on the HCAs current salary.

Current schemes are different; the HCA remains working but is released for 60% of the time for practice hours. Again 4 years to a degree. And these schemes exist for most other HCPs. They are just unaffordable because of the backfill requirement (and placement tariffs not adequately covering the education/supervision burden on the qualified workforce).

Many are leaving, my DD being one of them & they wont come back, the Govt isn't interested in having an NHS... the evidence is the the collapse of dental services... 13 years and they ve sod all to improve dental access.

You really do have to ask yourself, why with a 50k shortage of nurses alone & 7.5m on waiting lists, the Govt wont improve pay or T&Cs ?

How many more do you think before they do what you suggest?

The idea is to take the UK back to the pre NHS days, the wealthy and better paid will have insurance or employer provided schemes, everyone else will rely on emergency services provided by charities.

@TheHoover

People no longer want to work shifts/weekends and BH's for 27k p.a and then be forced to pay £2k or 3k in parking.

Govt wants nurses to wear body cams due to attacks, often sexual.

A degree level grad can earn £39k starting salary at Lidl & get a car.

Even if your idea was funded, where do we get the replacement HCA's ? who provides the staff to supervise?

There isn't the young people available, they have far better options.

@GPTec1
not my idea - this has been pushed by nhs central bodies as ‘the solution’ for many years. And the general consensus is that it will work if backfill and practice supervisors are funded. It’s a pipeline; backfill is provided by entry-level HCAs. You can of course argue about competition at entry-level grade which is a brand new thing experienced in the last 12 months but seems to be settling slightly and is certainly not a reason to abandon the scheme.

anyway it’s way, way better than robbing developing countries of their qualified professionals which is cheaper and therefore has been the big push for the last 4-5 years (whilst grow your own schemes remain unfounded).

Pat Cullen and the RCN have messed this up big time.

The rules are simple and clear. A ballot will only be effective for and mandate industrial action that takes place within six months, beginning with the date of the ballot closes.

The ballot closed on 2nd November - which is day 1. The six month period therefore finishes at the end of the day on 1st May. The RCN notified the NHS of a proposed 48-hour strike from 20:00 30th April to 20:00 2nd May. The last 20 hours are beyond the six month limit so the strike is illegal and must be called off.

A union must give 14 days notice of a strike, so there is not enough time left to re-arrange a strike that ends before 2nd May

For completeness - the six-month time limit can be extended to nine months if the union and employer agree, and a union can ask a court to extend the deadline if action was prohibited by a court injunction. The court can order an extension for a period equal to the period of prohibition.

I don't think it is quite so clear cut @jcyclops. The RCN is relying on precedent set by previous strikes that have been considered legal where they commence within the mandated period but finish after this period.

The two groups of lawyers (the RCN lawyers and the NHS lawyers) disagree on their interpretation of the law and that is why a judgement will be sought.

I'm not convinced the effort being put into blocking the strike wouldn't be better spent addressing the concerns that have lead to the strike, but there we go.

I thinkvthe government have fucked up by refusing to negotiate. Rather than doing the right thing, they are seeking to discredit the strike on a technicality. Lowering the standards rather than raising them again. This government is pathetic.

They are doing the same with the Junior Drs, total refusal to negotiate, but slagging them off instead.

Will the public fall for it? Well unfortunately I suspect a lot will.

Um..that's already happening. That's why nurses are striking. Not because they're not greedy for more money, but because they see the writing on the wall and until pay is increased; more and more will leave and fewer and fewer people will see it is an attractive career 🙄

And the RCN and Unison f-ed up. The RCN went in saying to it's members that 10% pay rise would be a good result then came out with 5% and a one-off bribe that the government knew struggling nurses would need.

The RCN heavily leant on their members urging them to accept this final offer and Unison went as far as to tell it's members to accept but if they did not, to be in no doubt they would end up worse off. Only Unite suggested it's members say no.

So the majority of Unison members were scared and voted to accept and the RCN vote had a small 54% to 46% vote to reject because they were also scared into thinking this was the best they would get.

Then SB and the Tories come out with their propaganda saying Unison members clear majority voted to accept because they know it's a fair and reasonable offer and that only a minority of RCN members voted to reject because they thought the same.

Which is bullshit quite frankly. Members were scared into it and now with the threats of legal action individually against nurses and the propaganda saying NHS bosses agree, plus all the "greedy nurses don't care that people will die" rhetoric around; many nurses will not strike and will give in when balloted about strike action for the next 6 mths.

Then SB and the tories will say " see? it was just a minority of the (socialists) who were causing problems, we were right all along it was fair"

Utter bastards.

And to add the government were refusing to negotiate then said they would, the unions fell for it so called off planned strikes. Then the government took their sweet time negotiating then gave a derisory offer knowing ballots to accept or not, take time and knowing the 6 month mandate to strike was rapidly running out so they could then pull the stunt they are now.

People are dying.

People die all the time because there aren’t enough nurses/doctors/midwives etc, no one gives a shit then. Pay your healthcare staff more, give them better working conditions and fund their training….. there will be no need to strike

Their time has passed, post pandemic, we now have Labour shortages, EU citizens & Early retirees, who have left the workforce.

Young have better options.

Anyway, where are the fully staff HCPs to enable these schemes? money in itself, does not magic up people.

Personally, i would spend the money getting people who have left, to return and improving retention.. some of the policies on sickness in the NHS are beyond belief, HCP's who have had time out for Flu and Covid, finding themselves on Sickness disciplinaries - Covid now counts as just another totally avoidable illness in the minds of the GOvt/NHS top brass.

Personally, i would spend the money getting people who have left, to return and improving retention.

That sounds like a plan. Now all you have to do is explain how to do it with no money. Then we are cooking with gas.

A lot of NHS buildings occupy very lucrative real estate. We really need to find a way to free that up so the property developers and their associates can move in and build the luxury apartments we need to help with trickle down economics.

Even before the pandemic, it wasn't happening. I was one of the people that benefitted from that scheme and was paid my band b wage to train as a nurse. When I was in my mid-20s with life commitments which meant I couldn't have afforded to do my nurse training without it.

I qualified 20+ years ago and at the time I trained, I was treated as any other student in terms of hours, placements etc but paid a band B wage. I wouldn't have been able to do my nurse training if I had to rely on a bursary as it was then, and definitely not if there was no bursary and I'd have to take out loans, as new prospective nurses do. And I wouldn't have been keen if I had to do band B HCA shifts in addition to being a full time student.

I qualified 20+ years ago and have worked in the same NHS trust since then so they have reaped the rewards of their investment. But my hospital trust hasn't offered any kind of similar sceme for years now. Because as always, they're short-sighted and have been underfunded for so long that anything that can save money in the short-term will go. Despite knowing it'll cost more in the long term employing agency staff.

When I did it, I was a 'senior band b' so I had a lot of experience (3 years), knowledge and training and had been working on 2 wards for that entire period. Who relied on me to do everything I couldn't legally do as a qualified nurse.

You couldn't have replaced me with an 'entry level HCA' so that would never work as backfill.

I hate tories with a passion but I don't support this strike. Many nurses don't. If the RCN have acted illegally the NHS managers have every right to mount a challenge.

Why?

There's no evidence the RCN have acted illegally so why are you against it?

And even if it was considered unlawful by the courts and the strike stopped, why would you think that is okay?

Why do you think nurses have to suck it up and accept poor pay which creates the current situation we're in now where nurses are leaving and not many want to choose nursing as a profession? With no ability to strike to try to improve that?

What's your issue with nurses striking that makes you say you hate the Tories but you think the Tories aren't causing the strike but its nurses causing the strike?

You're blaming nurses if you say you hate the Tories but you don't support the nurses strikes. Nurses were forced into it BY the Tory government.

Pick a side or be neutral and don't express an opinion.

I have already responded but just wanted to add what I know lots of us RN's are saying. I also benefited from a band B bursary and have been an RN for 20 years, I used to love my job but, now it is unbelievably stressful, I have been treated for PTSD for the things I saw and did in the pandemic. Now, nursing has always been stressful but this is something else. Every shift we are understaffed and it is so dangerous, I leave at the end of my 13 hour days (can't do short shifts, too expensive!) and I am just glad no one died, honestly it is that bad I don't know how else we can tell everyone. The care is poor due to underfunding and understaffing .
I don't want to strike but I am going to, people need to understand we are losing the NHS under the Tories. I am looking for a way out myH cannot take anymore.

That’s so sad @Battlecat98

Like a lot of the public, I appreciate you all for the work you do and collectively, NHS front line staff deserve better than what everyone is having to put up with at the moment. We have to get the tories out asap.

I agree.

I'll pin my colours to the mast. I am "fortunate" to have private health care. I say that because it's through the widows benefits I receive, so not something I'd want. The point is, back when we were first married, I argued against being added to the private health care he got as part of his employment, because I firmly and in my soul believed in the national health service. It was the best in the world. And we had to support it and fight for it.

I'm disabled now. I'm so lucky I have the private health care; but I am DISGUSTED that I need it. Our health service has been the envy of the world, and in one decade the Tories have near destroyed it.

I can barely walk now. I am in constant pain. But you tell me where and when and I'll walk (probably a couple of yards before I fall over) to protect our NHS. I am 65 years old. I have paid shed loads of taxes. So where have they gone? Mostly into ministers pockets from half the news stories.

Shame on anyone who won't fight for the finest "free at the point of access" health service in the world (with the possible exclusion of Cuba, who modeled their service on the NHS).

Word from the RCN tonight is Steve Barcley has already backed down from cancelling the whole thing to getting it shortened by a day.... good use of tax payers money then 🙄

I cannot see this reported anywhere. Do you have a link?