Steve Barclay taking legal action against nurses

[Gigihadr]

Reasonable or unreasonable?

my opinion is Steve Barclay is utter human garbage

Not sure why unions could not have planned a strike a few days earlier to fall within the 6 months, or do another ballot. If it's illegal then it is reasonable to take legal action.

This is so stupid.

Regardless of the legalities, he would do well to put equivalent energy into appearing to want to reach a resolution and acknowledging the issues behind the strikes.

Just engaging with disciplinary legal action and of kring the rest will excerabte all the issues behind the strikes anyway.

Who on EARTH would want to work for the NHS? Rubbish pay, horrendous conditions, and a health secretary who only appears to be able to take action when it's to stop you standing up and trying to enact change.

I have first hand recent experience of being extremely unwell, off work for months and receiving next to no healthcare in that time because everything my GP referred me to said they were overwhelmed. I've had to pay for private, piecemeal healthcare that's been very underwhelming. I was an inpatient and barely cared for. I've complained but PALS say complaints can't be dealt with in their previous timescales.....

Imagine only springing in to action now.

@TheHoover

These are aims not really plausible.

Why? because the UK has not enough A level grade students to fill these places and not leave skills shortages in other sectors.
Labour have not promised to increase pay substantially, to aid retention/make the profession more attractive or restore the Bursary for nurses and AHP's

Plus without FOM/or SM membership (which Lab have ruled out) attracting HCPs from the EU, we will have to continue the practice of taking workers from developing countries, which is exactly what the Tories are doing.

UK pay will not attract workers from Aus Canada NZ etc, its going the other way.

On Med school places, double them? how? there isn't the placement capacity.

They need to be a lot more ambitious, lead the country instead of following a focus group.

@Howpo
i have more faith. The workforce modernisation plan is about new pathways/growing your own which is there now but has not been funded. Placement capacity can be increased with additional money for practice/education supervisors and backfill. It’s a strong statement and I believe they will hold to it.

If they committed now to higher wages they will need to show how they can afford it which they will not be able to do with any credibility.

@TheHoover

Look, i want the Tories gone, dust, oblivion!

But equally i do not like empty promises and the UK has an aging workforce, there is a great deal of competition for A level grade students, 10k extra in healthcare means 10k less in engineering, law etc etc.

So we need a frictionless way to attract HCPs from the EU instead from countries that are in desperate need of HCP's themselves.

Labour do need to commit to higher wage increases and one way to fund this would be taxes on un earned income, they ve started with nom dom, lets see it extended to invest gains?

Unless they find a way to increase retention, all we will do is provide a steady stream of HCP's for Australia.

Lets see Labour put some clear blue water between themselves and the Cons on this issue.

Would it be tho? Medicine and nursing are very competitive attracting student with grades above and beyond what is required to do the job. If you had more places the entrance requirements would likely drop and more people would go to uni overall.

Volunteering to go into slavery?

What an Insult to actusl slaves

Ever heard of the concept of resigning? That's what I usually do if I don't like my job. There are plenty of private health care employers now.

@BluebellBlueballs
"Work done in harsh conditions for low pay" by definition

www.thefreedictionary.com/slavery
Yep, all resign and leave the health service with nothing? What a brilliant idea 🙄

Shows Steve Barclay and this government in a really bad light. Uncaring. People cannot afford to live. People are dying. But the government doesn't care. This is the absolute worst government that I have ever witnessed in 40 years
They need to be voted out.

I notice there could be more staffing problems on the horizon. I wonder if we are going to see a set of new laws making it illegal to quit, or requiring you to stay in your job.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/home-office-asylum-staff-boats-law-b2324492.html

It actually is a brilliant idea, as this would force the govt to increase the pay to over that of competitors to get the staff back.
It's called market forces.

Except @BluebellBlueballs the nhs staff leave... it won't be for posts on the private sector it will be for posts overseas... how do you propose they are filled once they have left?

caringcarer · Today 07:54

Not sure why unions could not have planned a strike a few days earlier to fall within the 6 months, or do another ballot.

They voted six months ago and wanted to use it as threat of last resort; they don't actually want to strike, but they feel that they have no other option. They have been trying to be reasonable, but the Government has ignored them.

Regarding another strike, there are a number of legal requirements, which must go through outside checks, to ensure the validity of members being still members and the like. It's a time consuming process.

Medicine yes, though i'm not sure i'd want the entry requirements to drop but regardless, who will run their placements?

As for Nursing & AHP courses, like Teaching, they are not attracting student numbers, drop the entrance requirements and we get poor quality nurses, AHP's.

But anyhow, none of what you say (or what Labour says) addresses the basic fact that there are not enough young people in this country to be trained up to do the multitude of jobs we require.

So where do we get HCP's from?

Very competitive international market out there.....

And how exactly do you know that? All of them willing to just move to another country, really? None of them with family or other ties here and happy to take a job in a private setting or even change career?

Well it would be a shame if there was a mass sick day of doctors and nurses.

I don’t think we’re going to have any doctors/ nurses left thanks to this government

Wherever they go who do you think will replace them?

*Medicine yes, though i'm not sure i'd want the entry requirements to drop but regardless, who will run their placements?

As for Nursing & AHP courses, like Teaching, they are not attracting student numbers, drop the entrance requirements and we get poor quality nurses, AHP's.

But anyhow, none of what you say (or what Labour says) addresses the basic fact that there are not enough young people in this country to be trained up to do the multitude of jobs we require.

So where do we get HCP's from? *

I don’t quite agree. Plenty of fabulous nurses are just simply not academic. The unexploited market is existing HCSWs desperate to get qualified but still needing protected time off the rota as a student (and therefore needing to be backfilled which costs money which the government could provide). This used to be a valuable source of nurses till the tories stopped funding the scheme 10 tears ago

10 years not 10 tears….haha more like 10 million tears

@TheHoover

You are also missing the point.. people don't want to be HCPs, its not just Nurses, its Radiographers, OT's, Physio's, the NHS is losing them in very large numbers.
These are all, rightly, degree level jobs, as they are in many other countries.

You have to have a certain amount of academic ability to understand human anatomy, operate a MRI scanner, understand the law when it comes to what you can and cannot do!

Nursing, whether you like it or not, isn't about sitting with a patient mopping their fevered brow anymore.

Durrrr! Themselves! When the government realises they've lost the staff to competitors and raises pay/ improves ts and Cs to compete back then they will attract and retain staff back.

Now that's the way to get a pay rise.

@BluebellBlueballs you really don't get it do you? Places like Western Australia have been actively touting for, not just nurses, but all sorts of public workers, with massive incentives to move overseas. Once any kind of public worker- nurse, prison officer, police officer, goes over there, for better conditions and pay they won't be coming running back to this county because the government realise they have messed up and give public sector workers a pay rise online with what they have lost

You're the one who doesn't get it as you think NHS workers are actually enslaved, when no one is holding a gun to their heads forcing them to work for that employer.

You're saying they'll all leave to foreign countries, some may but the majority with family ties and homes here will work for other employers.

Anyway, that will give the NHS a big kick up the arse and they'll realise they are hemorrhaging staff and will need to make it more attractive to work in the NHS. That will have more impact than a few days of strikes from over-loyal staff.

Hmm and once so call AHPs have all found work with private companies, retired permanently, and/or just buggered off completely, what will the government do.... it won't be a pay rise, it will be "the NHS isn't viable, let's sell it off".... so Joe Public who can't afford health insurance because they can barely afford a roof over their head, just gets left to die of any illness they are unfortunate enough to get