Steve Barclay taking legal action against nurses

[Gigihadr]

Reasonable or unreasonable?

my opinion is Steve Barclay is utter human garbage

@Tarantullah problem is if you split off nurses onto another pay scale you will then lose other AHP such as paramedics, physicians associates, pharmacist, radiographers, lab staff etc who do an equally hard job.

What is needed is everyone (yes including doctors) bringing onto one larger pay scale so you can have something like basic admin staff, support staff and then rising levels of pay for registered clinical staff.

I don't think a manager running a service should be paid less than a core trainee etc my job is 50:50 admin/management to practice of my profession. It's the admin side that carries the most stress and responsibility! The current pay offer chips away at the small amount extra I get for a lot more responsibly.

I'm considering a side ways move for more professional practice anyway, but another few years of this sort of pay offer and it will be a done deal. Repeat that across the NHS and you will have no clinician willing to run a service for the ever smaller pay premium!

I defiantly don't do my job for the money (considering I'm strongly considering going back to uni for 4/5years to progress) but it has to pay the bills and give us the life we want. If it comes to a point it doesn't I might have to use my degree elsewhere that pays better.

You are paid to do a job. You can't leave people to die because you want more money.

Nursing and AHP salaries and benefits (A/L, sick pay, job security) are quite good comparative to some private sector posii.

Striking is the adult equivalent of a toddler tantrum and shoes what happens if you run a socialist organisation.

That would make sense if there hadn’t been such a pay cut under this government.
They are striking because of pay erosion, that’s not actually looking for a pay rise. They are looking for what they were paid in 2010. Same with junior doctors who have had 27% pay erosion. Soon consultants will strike, who have had 35%+ pay erosion.

All would have been happy to be paid in the way they were in 2010

I think all clinical staff should splinter off together personally, I mentioned nurses as in this case it is just them but agree others should be included equally.

This isn't saying corporate and administration staff aren't important, of course they are and they work hard, but I just think it's harming clinical staff to be banded in. The issue with managers/professionals pay is that they could be paid £££s more elsewhere; they need to pay a semi attractive (albeit its invariably lower than elsewhere still) to attract people. Up to now the NHS hasn't had much competition for clinical staff, but people have finally had enough and are leaving (don't blame them) yet they still do nothing.

There was an interesting twitter thread on what the person saw as the plan, it did make a lot of sense and it's not destroy the NHS but equally as harmful. The government know what they're doing and are doing it for a purpose.

People are dying daily due to shortages though, its not the case that everything is hunky dory aside from on strike days; people are worn out, exhausted, at the end of their tether and see striking as a last resort before leaving. I doubt any healthcare professional makes the decision to strike solely just for a few more quid, but a better salary will lead to better retention which is what the NHS desperately needs. People doing a job aren't responsible alone for people dying, the system is and people shouldn't not fight for their rights and for better conditions because of a sense of service or guilt. The ones responsible are the ones who have been making crappy decisions for many years.

People are dying whether they're there or not because services are underfunded and staffing levels are unsafe. They're not just striking for money.

I think the government want something equivalent to the 1980s miners dispute and the 'enemy' within. So they can portray Labour as the friend of strikers and the disruption would be worse under a Labour government.

Rail workers have settled the main dispute (train drivers maximum salary quoted not everyone else in the rail industry) and so now most of those taking industrial action have more public sympathy.

Aside from SB ridiculous antics.... all the people commenting with "it's their job" or "people are going to die"... whilst this is true to an extent this government with their new laws are essentially making entering our health service volunteering to going into slavery by definition of not being able to withdraw one's labour. If one can't withdraw their labour they are a slave.... who's going to want to work for an organisation like that with poor conditions and poor pay requiring a minimum of a degree qualification that gives numerous transferable skills? It's almost like people are happy for this government to kill off the NHS and the poor who can't afford private health cover to die 🙄

Brieandcamembert · Today 10:51

You are paid to do a job. You can't leave people to die because you want more money.

They can leave altogether, then what? The Government has refused to act to bring their pay back to the levels of 13 years ago, the strikers have said repeatedly that this is an absolute last resort.

Nursing and AHP salaries and benefits (A/L, sick pay, job security) are quite good comparative to some private sector posii.

So they get paid more than checkout staff and call centre workers. Do you have the slightest clue why that is?

Striking is the adult equivalent of a toddler tantrum and shoes what happens if you run a socialist organisation.

Tantrums are rapid onset, this is not. You sound like those people who comment on Mail articles along the lines of, "Sack them! Greedy bastards!" and then complain that they can't get an appointment, but lack the wit to understand why.

Labour have said they're against strike action too, they did backtrack slightly amongst some discontent but they're so far away from the ethos the labour party was founded on that they're not allies either.

Totally agree with you. I’ve only just read about the legal action SB is taking this morning and I’m absolutely flabbergasted!!
All it has done is angered me more and made me even more determined than ever not to back down now.
32 years of nursing, and I’m done. I have reached the end of the line.
we are being walked over and enough is enough.
Good luck with your waiting list Rushi…… you’re going to need it !!!

Agreed !!

Everyone else in the industry in the public sector got about 9.2% give or take

Could you let me know what equivalent positions you are talking about?

The most ridiculous thing about this whole sorry situation is the right wingers insistence on comparing highly skilled graduate healthcare professionals with retail workers and delivery drivers and people like you swallowing this nonsense hook, line and sinker.

I saw there was a hatchet job article in the spectator that made the astounding claim that if the junior doctors and nurses were given a decent pay rise it would put them "financially beyond ordinary working people" - what utter tripe! These roles are comparable with other professions at the very least and I hardly think that junior doctors or nurses getting a pay rise will see them out earning lawyers and accountants in the private sector for example.

It always takes two to tango, if going on strike is the equivalent of a tantrum, what is Barclay doing by refusing to negotiate? same with Jnr Doc's, he has refused to sit down and talk...

Nursing and AHP salaries and benefits (A/L, sick pay, job security) are quite good comparative to some private sector posii

That's irrelevant if HCP are leaving (and they are) the professions are not attractive for A level grade students anymore.

So the NHS will continue its decline & that will, one way or another, effect us all.

Didn't the RCN advise their members to accept the paltry offer of 5%? Aren't they the ones potentially in the wrong legally here? I'd also want a better and stronger union.

I’m not with the RCN, I’m with Unite.
However, I agree the RCN haven’t supported nurses at all. They never should have agreed to the ridiculous offer.

I feel the same about Unison, @Nursefedup. I suspect that was part of the offer though. IIRC the teachers unions had to put it to their members in a positive light. I’m sure they will have taken the same approach with NHS as the two offers were fairly similar.

The first thing I said when the legal action was announced was how ridiculous that they're wasting time and money on legal action about a technicality when the NHS is falling apart around our ears.

It's so sad that the NHS is losing committed and experienced staff because they aren't valued by the government.

Thank you for your service, and for telling it like it is.

He’s an idiot.

Just negotiate a settlement for goodness sake. It’s going to happen in the end anyway. The longer he spins this out, just makes him look even more incompetent.

He’s going to be out of a job and looking for positions come the next general election. Who is going to employ him (or Gillian Keegan come to that!) when he can’t even negotiate with a bunch of nurses - in one of the most caring, understanding and reasonable professions we have!

Or maybe just maybe NHS employers/Barclay could actually listen to healthcare staff. I’m a healthcare professional and it’s a shit show. It’s not just about pay, it’s so unsafe and staff risk their pins and registrations daily. Patients die daily because of poor care due to lack of staff. Nevermind the strike.

Threatening court action doesn’t really encourage staff to stay now does it. But it’s ok because the government don’t really use the NHS do they? They can afford with their pay and generous expenses to go private.

Remember those claps three years ago and how many staff were under no illusion this would happen after the pandemic

People die all the time.

A death is a tragedy. A million a statistic. I am mildly amused the government weren't told this by their paymasters advisers

I wonder if they went back out to ballot how many more would vote to strike. I really wish the trust CEO's would sort it by just paying us properly and going into a deficit. At the end of the day if people want the NHS to the extent it exists now it's got to be paid for, other wise at the rate we are losing staff it simple won't exist.

At the end of the day if people want the NHS to the extent it exists now it's got to be paid for, other wise at the rate we are losing staff it simple won't exist

But we can't dictate that, if Sunak choses not to fund the NHS to the long term averages of say France Germany etc, for the people that care, there is precious little we can do about that.

Despite the mess the govt has made of the NHS/Social care, the polls have closed quite a bit between Lab/Con recently.

I'm really not seeing Labours plans to recruit 10k extra nurses each and every year as plausible at all, which is a such a shame because the NHS really could be a vote winner for Lab but they are just too timid.

Many people really do believe the NHS is properly funded and staffed but badly run and no amount of extra staff or money will change this.

@Howpo
here is labour’s pledge: https://labour.org.uk/press/labour-to-deliver-10-year-plan-for-change-and-modernisation-of-the-nhs/
what else would you like to see?

@sleepyscientist
I really wish the trust CEO's would sort it by just paying us properly
NHS pay grades are negotiated nationally not locally by Trust CEOs. There isn’t a single trust CEO in the country that doesn’t want to pay nurses, junior docs and other healthcare staff what they deserve