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Original poster

to ask if literally anyone feels they are paid adequate child maintenance? I'm feeling desperate

282 replies

hadenlugff · 21/04/2023 15:39

Just that really. I’m paid 570 but it won’t even cover half of the nursery fees let alone wrap around care and everything else.

Not only that but it’s not even guaranteed so I can’t rely on it… and that’s fucking awful as I should be able to have some
assurance that I won’t be left entirely to raise a child that is half someone else’s.

I know people have it worse, it’s not a race to then bottom. I’m just dreading dc starting nursery in autumn and dont know how I will manage. Is anyone happy with what they get for maintenance? Ever? It feels so shit.

OP posts:
Badbudgeter · 21/04/2023 21:43

Densol57 · 21/04/2023 21:35

So you had no part in getting pregnant and having the baby ?

Show quote history

I’m sure she played her part but why does she have to do nigh on 100% of the looking after? If you have a child you should be committed to providing 50% of what that child needs in both time and money.

IAmCinderella · 21/04/2023 22:36

So are you saying if you have one child and a mortgage the paying parent should pay half of that mortgage?

No. Read it again.

I said the non-resident parent should pay 50% of the cost of housing the child. I.e. if one child living with the resident parent in a two bedroom house for example, towards housing they they should pay:

(Total monthly cost of child's home - what the monthly cost would be for the resident parent to live alone) x 50%.

Plus 50% of the incremental cost of utilities relating to the child, 50% of their clothing/ food/ childcare/ activities, etc.

So 50% of the cost of raising their child. I don't see how this is remotely controversial for any decent human being.

IAmCinderella · 21/04/2023 22:37

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 21/04/2023 21:18

There also needs to be a proper system of enforcement as for non-payment of Council tax or other tax evasion: criminal prosecution and prison sentences. Social stigma. Also other deterrents such as confiscation of passports and driving licences.

Thats already all available. It’s just not used because there is zero political will to do so.

The range of sanctions actually available to CMS is wide and varied, but they just don’t use them much.

Given the reason that maintenance was stopped from counting as income toward benefits it really does say it all about the political opinion (of many governments and various colours) toward the issue.

IMO a societal change is needed before anything will change politically. It needs to become as socially unacceptable to not pay toward your kids as it is to drink drive before anything will change. While it’s acceptable to someone’s Mum/Dad/sibling/mates that they don’t pay it’s going to remain acceptable to their MP.

CMS needs some new management then. Preferably some people who have been resident parents and screwed over so would know exactly what needs to be done.

IAmCinderella · 21/04/2023 22:39

The tax system also needs overhauling so that it stops penalising single parents. The whole UK system is a shambles and deliberately disadvantages women and children.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 21/04/2023 22:58

IAmCinderella · 21/04/2023 22:37

CMS needs some new management then. Preferably some people who have been resident parents and screwed over so would know exactly what needs to be done.

Show quote history

It needs political will to change its stance. And proper funding - which it’s not going to get until people start making it a vote issue.

cadburyegg · 21/04/2023 23:19

I get £69 a week for two dc. Ex has them 2-3 nights a month. It's the minimum that the CMS suggests, but ex pays via a private arrangement by direct debit.

No, I don't think it's enough. I don't want to make myself miserable by calculating how much the dc actually cost.

I think it needs to be more commonplace that maintenance can come directly out of wages, just like PAYE, NI, childcare vouchers, pension contributions, student loan etc. That way, if NRP's wage goes up or down then the RP will always receive the "correct" amount relative to this. I know ex does a lot of overtime but trying to have a conversation about money with him is like trying to get blood out of a stone. I have no idea how much he earns now, for all I know he should be paying more. Maybe I should try and broach the subject 😐

Lastnamedidntstick · 21/04/2023 23:28

Well I’d rather have my children at home with me even if I do have to pay for them.

I’d rather that than only see them 50% of the time.

but I came from a home where my dad suddenly dropped dead. I had a friend at the time that used to whinge about having to see her dad weekends and him only paying x per month and her mum needing more.

I made sure I was financially independent right from the start. My house, my money. So if and when I was ever left a lone parent I could afford to support my own kids.

yes cms is never going to be enough. But unless you are both decent earners you’re never going to be able to split one household into two financially, and be able to afford two homes, two cars, two lots of bills etc so children can be equally parented on the same income. So someone will end up shafted. It’s the nature of the beast.

BOYBANDLOVER · 22/04/2023 00:19

well i get zero and it makes me angry as their household is on well over 8 thousand a month ive worked it out as close to 9

his new wife, my ex best friend has 8 kids by 7 men,(none of the dads involved) the first 7 are teenagers and she had them with in 6 years. the youngest is 7 month and my exs baby

all has asd/adhd so she gets 7 lots of high dla and both adults are on high pip and 2 lots of carers allowance and all the UC disability elements that goes with a UC claim

that goes with full rent for a 5 bedroom house and full council tax

i know all this because we were as close as sisters and in fact i got her 3 kids a renewal on dla as i filled in the paper work for her

that's a LOT of money, i know because i have 2 boys on high dla and i get carers and the UC disabled premiums and full rent etc paid myself.

as a single mother with 2 kids on DLA i get a fair bit(i say i but the DLA does go on the kids needs, its not added to my my monthly money)

i tried the csa 6 months ago, put in the correct details and it came up with im owed zero becasue hes on PIP and CARERS its classed as zero

like i said we get a lot to live on and live a very comfy lifestyle with money left over most months.

he doesn't buy the kids anything or give me anything, he went from a 24-7 carer/full time dad to nothing as he doesnt even see them anymore

i was made a lone parent(not a single parent that implies dad has contact,jointly carering for the kids)
we were together 22 years before he left overnight for her

so it does get my backup when others moan about the amount they are getting, theres hundreds of us that gets zero money, help or a break

OhamIreally · 22/04/2023 04:16

All these people talking about what benefits single parents receive, are you actually saying that you think the state I.e. taxpayers, should pay for these children rather than the children's own fathers?

This is such a misogynistic society we live in. My ex pays just under £400. So if you add my 50% yes £780 per month probably does cover the basics. But I want more than the basics for my child and work myself to death to provide it. He does nothing but a bit of Disney dadding and is free to earn and relax as he chooses with no childcare considerations, appointments, sick days and all the rest of it.

Makes my blood boil so I try not to dwell on it.

@IAmCinderella agree about the tax situation. A couple on £40k each will be £600 a month better off than a single parent on £80k because of the way tax is calculated (I've included child benefit for one child in the calculation).

Imagine this scenario when you're telling women it's enough: you'd quite like a child but it's a lot of responsibility. You have the option of paying £400 a month to have that child brought up in a warm loving home, all their food, activities, child and healthcare is taken care of. You won't have to pay for haircuts or school trips or even a few extra pairs of socks. If you pay this £400 you will even be considered a good parent. Doesn't that look like an absolute fucking bargain? £400 a month to have your kid brought up?

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 22/04/2023 07:09

So if you add my 50%

This comes up a lot and it bugs me - maintenance isn’t meant to be 50%.

That, imo, is why people struggle when bothers get a high amount. Or should get a high amount.

It meant to be a proportional portion of your income.

A footballer and a cleaner or a CEO and a bin man are not going to be paying 50% each of the lifestyle the child should have based on their parents combined incomes.

Tiamaria86 · 22/04/2023 07:57

IAmCinderella · 21/04/2023 22:36

So are you saying if you have one child and a mortgage the paying parent should pay half of that mortgage?

No. Read it again.

I said the non-resident parent should pay 50% of the cost of housing the child. I.e. if one child living with the resident parent in a two bedroom house for example, towards housing they they should pay:

(Total monthly cost of child's home - what the monthly cost would be for the resident parent to live alone) x 50%.

Plus 50% of the incremental cost of utilities relating to the child, 50% of their clothing/ food/ childcare/ activities, etc.

So 50% of the cost of raising their child. I don't see how this is remotely controversial for any decent human being.

It's not about being a decent human being its about being realistic. 50% just doesn't work because of so many reasons.

The paying parent simply may not earn enough to cover that, if they are single they will have to pay 50% of those costs plus 100% of their own, they may become unemployed, ill, disabled (all things which happen in 2 parent households as well)

Furthermore if shared care is in place then no it shouldn't be 50%.

On the flipside they may be massively high earners in which case I believe they should potentially pay more than the 50% because the child should get the benefit of that income.

It has to be calculated as a percentage of their income for so many reasons. Now is that percentage high enough? Potentially not, is enough done to enforce it? Absolutely not.

Not paying for your kids is vile and the system does need to change but i just don't think a straight 50% split is the way.

Curtains70 · 22/04/2023 08:07

BOYBANDLOVER · 22/04/2023 00:19

well i get zero and it makes me angry as their household is on well over 8 thousand a month ive worked it out as close to 9

his new wife, my ex best friend has 8 kids by 7 men,(none of the dads involved) the first 7 are teenagers and she had them with in 6 years. the youngest is 7 month and my exs baby

all has asd/adhd so she gets 7 lots of high dla and both adults are on high pip and 2 lots of carers allowance and all the UC disability elements that goes with a UC claim

that goes with full rent for a 5 bedroom house and full council tax

i know all this because we were as close as sisters and in fact i got her 3 kids a renewal on dla as i filled in the paper work for her

that's a LOT of money, i know because i have 2 boys on high dla and i get carers and the UC disabled premiums and full rent etc paid myself.

as a single mother with 2 kids on DLA i get a fair bit(i say i but the DLA does go on the kids needs, its not added to my my monthly money)

i tried the csa 6 months ago, put in the correct details and it came up with im owed zero becasue hes on PIP and CARERS its classed as zero

like i said we get a lot to live on and live a very comfy lifestyle with money left over most months.

he doesn't buy the kids anything or give me anything, he went from a 24-7 carer/full time dad to nothing as he doesnt even see them anymore

i was made a lone parent(not a single parent that implies dad has contact,jointly carering for the kids)
we were together 22 years before he left overnight for her

so it does get my backup when others moan about the amount they are getting, theres hundreds of us that gets zero money, help or a break

So you all live off benefits you just want some of her benefits?

gogohmm · 22/04/2023 08:14

Exh has always been very fair, gives me maintenance despite dd being an adult (she is at university but also has sen) she always gives extra if I ask too. I told him to cut it by £200 a month as I was better off than him! (I don't have a mortgage anymore he does)

gogohmm · 22/04/2023 08:16

For the most part I think people should push for 50/50 and no maintenance, would mean so much less agro when they won't cooperate

Lastnamedidntstick · 22/04/2023 08:18

OhamIreally · 22/04/2023 04:16

All these people talking about what benefits single parents receive, are you actually saying that you think the state I.e. taxpayers, should pay for these children rather than the children's own fathers?

This is such a misogynistic society we live in. My ex pays just under £400. So if you add my 50% yes £780 per month probably does cover the basics. But I want more than the basics for my child and work myself to death to provide it. He does nothing but a bit of Disney dadding and is free to earn and relax as he chooses with no childcare considerations, appointments, sick days and all the rest of it.

Makes my blood boil so I try not to dwell on it.

@IAmCinderella agree about the tax situation. A couple on £40k each will be £600 a month better off than a single parent on £80k because of the way tax is calculated (I've included child benefit for one child in the calculation).

Imagine this scenario when you're telling women it's enough: you'd quite like a child but it's a lot of responsibility. You have the option of paying £400 a month to have that child brought up in a warm loving home, all their food, activities, child and healthcare is taken care of. You won't have to pay for haircuts or school trips or even a few extra pairs of socks. If you pay this £400 you will even be considered a good parent. Doesn't that look like an absolute fucking bargain? £400 a month to have your kid brought up?

So why don’t more women hand over residency to their exes if it’s such a cushy deal?

one household simply doesn’t split into two financially.

Ratonastick · 22/04/2023 08:22

I got zero for most of DSs childhood. He just upped and left when DS was 6 months old so I pursued him through CMS / CSA and they found him. All calculated etc but he just didn’t pay. And I couldn’t get a deduction from his payroll, despite being repeatedly told that they would do that. Then he changed jobs so back to square one. And so it rambled on and on and on. He owes me over £50k with interest etc. And now that DS is 18 they have asked me to write it off and are now getting shitty with me when I say I want it pursued. Will I fuck write it off! It’s the final insult.

Brewskipa · 22/04/2023 08:35

£130 a month, doesn’t cover the cost of the therapy my child needs because my ex assaulted him then bailed on being a parent.

MillicentTrilbyHiggins · 22/04/2023 09:11

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 22/04/2023 07:09

So if you add my 50%

This comes up a lot and it bugs me - maintenance isn’t meant to be 50%.

That, imo, is why people struggle when bothers get a high amount. Or should get a high amount.

It meant to be a proportional portion of your income.

A footballer and a cleaner or a CEO and a bin man are not going to be paying 50% each of the lifestyle the child should have based on their parents combined incomes.

Why shouldn't it be 50% why should I (as the resident parent) cover the majority of the costs (even allowing for benefits I pay more than 50% of what's left of the DCs share of costs) and 99.9% of the parenting?

DC are older teens now so it's moot, but when they were smaller ex didn't have them if they were sick, if he was sick (including if he had a headache), if his wife was sick, if his step/younger DC was sick. He'd cancel (often after he was due to pick them up) because he was "busy".
The one holiday he took them on I had to provide every thing they needed, even suncream, toothpaste and spending money. He then reduced my CM that month because he had them for a week.

I've gone without basics for years, because I'm paying for more than 50% of costs.

And before anyone asks why I never went for 50/50, he didn't want it.

cadburyegg · 22/04/2023 09:16

gogohmm · 22/04/2023 08:16

For the most part I think people should push for 50/50 and no maintenance, would mean so much less agro when they won't cooperate

My ex wouldn't agree to have them 50/50, as is the case (I suspect) for a lot of NRPs. If they aren't going to pay what they should then why would they want more responsibility?

Also this might be an unpopular opinion but I don't believe 50/50 is the right arrangement for some children. My dc2 wouldn't mind it but dc1 would hate it. Some children need a base where they can settle most of the time

BibbleandSqwauk · 22/04/2023 09:18

I would have loved to do 50/50 but he had zero interest in it. If you add up the nights he has them it just scrapes into the 52-103 but it's sporadic so doesn't really represent the reality..it assumes he actually has them 1-2 nights a week. If that were true my life would be transformed and I could even earn more.
One thing never taken into account is how much RPs earning potential and therefore pension are affected by being the RP. NRPs can do overtime, late shifts, be flexible etc. The % should definitely be higher, or the nrp take on more of the actual load.

OhamIreally · 22/04/2023 09:43

So why don’t more women hand over residency to their exes if it’s such a cushy deal?

one household simply doesn’t split into two financially. @Lastnamedidntstick because the exes don't want them is the simple answer. They walk away and often dick about with the limited contact they do have.

Your argument that one household simply doesn't split into two financially is nonsensical- the RP also has housing costs AND the cost of bringing up the child. It appears you are saying that the sacrifice the NRP is being asked to make is too great whereas the RP can be asked to sacrifice their earning potential, financial well-being, health and freedom and that's fine.

Logical if you consider that women are simply support humans and their labour should be free.

BlackeyedSusan · 22/04/2023 09:44

Money has been ok most of the time. Running two homes on his one income has been tight sometimes in the past when he was out of work (redundancy) but we've worked together on finance. He's a bloody nightmare with being on time for kids and bringing them back late. There's been some DV too. (Why we split) He's not vindictive like some, just can't keep his temper.

The unreliable income is worse for you as you can't plan. Nursery fees are expensive. Mine are disabled so I didn't go out to work as I was going to so many appointments and after-school care was not appropriate for one of them.

Conkersinautumn · 22/04/2023 09:46

Ours hasn't gone up in 16 years. So it really doesn't cover much of anything now.

BibbleandSqwauk · 22/04/2023 11:01

I keep meaning to do an experiment...work out 20% of my wage, ring fence that and see how long it lasts through the month purely on stuff for them, (2kids) plus his maintenance. We earn roughly the same but he never contributes anything above his 20%. Even without doing the figures I know I spent significantly more than 20% just on them because in the rare times he has them for whole weeks my food bill just for me is about £20, I run the dishwasher and washing machine once in the week rather than every day. I don't need to fund 3 people's hot water. As I said above, if v happily give him 50/50 but he doesn't want it...I wonder why?

taxpayer1 · 22/04/2023 20:54

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