To think we try and encourage babies to be independent too soon?

[graciousgrace]

I just don't understand the obsession with wanting babies to be so independent so early on? I go to quite a few baby groups, and am constantly hearing comments like...

"I don't spoon feed my baby, I've encouraged self feeding from day one."

"My baby sleeps through the night because I didn't respond to their cries when they woke up."

"I don't rock my baby to sleep because they need to learn to put themselves to sleep and self soothe."

"I don't co-sleep because my baby needs to be in their own room in their own cot."

And the most shocking one of all... a mum at a baby group I went to said that her 7 month old baby "will only do a poo on the toilet"! Literally couldn't make it up!

As a mum who happily spoon feeds, co-sleeps and rocks my baby to sleep, it is so annoying hearing these comments because it's like these mums think they're superior. What's wrong with me wanting to treat my baby like a, you know, baby? I mean, great for you if those things work for you, but us mums who do things differently shouldn't be made to feel inadequate or like we're doing things wrong. Babies are only babies for such a short amount of time, so why can't we embrace the time when they actually need us to do things for them? I doubt I'll have a 15 year who still wants to be spoon fed, rocked to sleep and sleep in my bed 😂 does anyone agree or am I just being too sensitive?

If a baby is reliant on the adult recognising signals taking to a potty and putting on the potty it's the adult that is trained not the child. If you sit on a toilet you can empty your bladder even if you only went 15 minutes ago but that doesn't mean you're trained just that you're voiding your bladder at cold air and pressure much like a dog salivating at Pavlov's bell.
Parents say their child is trained because the parent is good at catching wee but the baby would still soil if the parent didn't watch. Training is being able to hold a wee, communicate a need and in normally developing children take themselves. Be fully dressed not naked ....naked children revert to wetting when dressed. If a child is truly ready training takes a few days not months everyone can live their lives, play, work, relax not sit staring at a child or sitting them every 20 minutes.

That's not trained though... That's the child being taken to the toilet.

Yes interesting points, I wonder which approach is more child centred and which is encouraging independence? My impression is that the responsive to infants signals, careful observation of cues is more child centred, the " "everybody doing their own thing, stick em in enviromentally catastrophic disposable nappies till 3" is more adult centred , indivualistic and fostering independence.

Incidentally although most children can adapt to the delayed training, there is an increasing number of DCs who resist or can't be trained at this age are therefore entering school in nappies. We need to look at this as a society.

It happens at the other end of life too, with continent older adults being put in to incontinence products for convenience, equally environmentally disastrous

I just think there's this air of superiority about the idea that you've "trained" your child at 11 months... implying that the 2.5yo is somehow being failed or behind or whatever.but the reality is, that kids are actually generally independent in toileting around the same age.

Yes there's the issue of modern conveniences meaning some kids are still in nappies at 5 etc. But it's hardly a new phenomenon that some kids struggle with toileting at that kind of age.

So is it not an achievement to have carefully observed for infant so that you can catch most wees, rather than "getting on with things" ? Do these parents not have a right to be proud of it ?

Full disclosure mine were trained at 2years 4m and 2years 7m, very average ages in the 00's. But it is interesting socially the shift.

Sorry your infant not for infant.

The reason for the difference was the seasons, both trained in early summer, as was the fashion at the time.

I would be interested to know if toddlers were trained earlier as wearing terry towelling nappies was just uncomfortable. I mean feeling wet is horrible and putting 2 and 2 together and realizing that weeing in the loo/potty prevents it seems logical. Do people use terry training pants anymore?

Yes, fine, be proud of yourself.

But don't pretend your child is toilet trained at 14m and make others feel like they're doing something wrong because their child was in nappies until 2.5y.

I think they were out of nappies earlier. But we're they actually trained earlier than 2.5ish?

I don't know. My sister is 16 years younger than me. I can recall her standing in wet training pants going 'ugh' and screwing her face up in disgust. She must have been about 2 because I went off to university when she was that age. She was out of nappies when I went home at Christmas.

I have just said my DCs were not trained by 14m did you read what I said ?

Not you... The people who are claiming such nonsense

I was brought up in the generation of early trainers...for parents convenience to avoid washing....many reverted at times of stress like school aged 5. Many have constipation and continence issues.
The children I have experience of and working with various agencies and parents most delayed training except SEN is parents not being bothered and comments like that's schools job ...not children resisting. They have missed the point of readiness and started ignoring the need a child of 30 to 40 months is not delayed a child of 50 months is. A child of 11 months is having parent control their bladder not controlling it themselves.....and as they reach independence at around the same age ...30 months ish they are not trained any earlier. Parents are just wee catching.

Most parents have to work to provide a home etc. They are having to get on with things the idea you can spend 18 months watching for a wee....or even one is not in most families priority list... especially as the only benefit is reduced washing or less disposables and no benefit to the child, possibly detriment I'm having play constantly interrupted. There is also an argument that these children in my experience are less independent in play and socially because they have been kept so close and not allowed to move away in play.

We used washable nappies from birth. They weren’t terry but children in reusable nappies do often toilet train earlier as they are more aware that they have had a wee. They aren’t uncomfortable though, they are highly absorbent but give more feel.
My DD was dry 3 weeks after her 2nd birthday- no effort required. She was off nursery with Covid (but wasn’t ill) back when it was a mandatory 10 days isolation. We used it to toilet train as we couldn’t go anywhere. Was a doddle.

I totally understand. I feel like people have babies and these days babies have to fit in with our lives and people want not to be inconvenienced by having a baby! It’s like breastfeeding now is almost frowned upon. Having recently a lot of friends having babies they are very much I won’t be glued to the baby, 2 parents , husband up in the night just as much ect ect babies should be babies & cuddled and co sleep. I think women don’t want to be seen to be the primary caregiver either . Makes me quite sad I’ve also heard similar things at baby groups. 8 week old babies sleeping through because you can buy magic over night milk powder that keeps them fuller for longer, 8 week old babies are supposed to wake through the night!.

You think it's sad that some men actually get up in the night and parent their own child? I think it's sad that you think it's sad.

I absolutely do not want to be seen as the primary caregiver. My baby has a second parent who loves him just as much as I do, as well as grandparents and a keyworker who regularly care for him. A mother is only part of who I am.

8 weeks is when my baby started to sleep through. No hungry baby milk, just the usual stage 1 milk and the ability to self settle. Looks like he missed the memo that he's 'supposed' to wake up at night.

Babies have always fitted in with adults' life. Since forever!

@SouthLondonMum22 most mothers feel a mother is the most important thing they will do in their life, and they don’t see their baby as an inconvenience

Why is it sad? I don't want to be primary care giver i want to be equal. My DD slept through from 6 weeks it was fantastic no hungry baby milk needed bf in the day and stage 1 at 11pm dh did that bottle quite often for one feed slept through until 7am. Should I want to be sleep deprived for years? If I'm sleep deprived I'm more grumpy with sleep I'm a better parent. DDs 10 so a long time ago now.

Also I didnt co sleep because I have a sleep disorder much safer for my DD to be in her own cot.

I spoon fed for longer as my son was premature so didn't have great hand eye coordination. He was also happy for me to feed him. I didn't think co sleeping was safe. There was no way I could have slept properly or relaxed with him in the bed, especially as he was so tiny to begin with. He sleeps amazingly on his own. We all do things differently, I couldn't care less what another parent is doing.

I didn’t breastfeed because I have breast cancer. I pumped for a bit but it was destroying my already wobbly MH and I wasn’t getting much anyway, (unsurprisingly as one side was busier trying to kill me but anyway) DH is a truly equal parent and often had to get up in the night because I literally couldn’t pick my baby up as I had a drain in my armpit. I didn’t co sleep because on the couple of times I tried, my baby was prodding/poking my sore bits and trying to pull the picc line out of my arm. My baby went into her own room at 6 months because her sleep was being disturbed by my insomnia - she was sleeping through, I wasn’t. My baby started nursery at 9 months old because I needed time to recover from chemo. She loves food and has always fed herself with her hands because she prefers it. She’ll take hold of a loaded spoon to feed herself sometimes - but if you try to spoon feed she turns her head and cries.

She’s just turned 1, I am her favourite person in the world, and she is mine. A mother that doesn’t breastfeed or co sleep or spoon feed or do absolutely everything herself because her child has another parent who is perfectly capable of caring for his child (and wants to!) still loves her child as much as a mother who does choose to do those things.

I don’t know why I click on these threads. I feel enough guilt over breastfeeding without reading the sweeping statements you always get on threads like these…

What are you talking about? Most children in the world are fully potty trained by 1-1.5 and not in the ‘watch and catch’ way but properly in that they will go to the loo themselves for wees and poos and even wash themselves. This concept of waiting for them to be ‘aware’ of potty urges is a white concept designed specifically to make nappy companies more money.