To think the media over exaggerate trans women and refugees?

[SleepDreamThinkHuge]

I have noticed in the media when trans women and refugees do crimes it is highlighted to such an extent compared to if say men commit rapes. When it is a trans women raping someone it leads to "women being unsafe" and the funny thing is a lot of people doing this faux outrage and pretending they care about women is from some men. It is strange when you hear things like "as a father or mother I worry for my child's safety they are not safe." Ok so what about when most sexual attacks are committed by cis men? You never heard them protest about that.

It is the same with refugees you only hear the bad stories "oh he is gaining the system" "oh a lot of these refugees are rapists." There is no middle ground in both of these issues. Rape/sexual assault gaining the system is done by a minority of all people (black, Asian, White etc..) But when it is refugees or trans men doing crime it is highlighted to such as extent to which other groups that do the same crime e.g. white Brits is less highlighted and outrage is not as much.

It goes both ways. There seem to be plenty of misogynist men who I'm sure don't really give a shit about trans rights who have jumped on the opportunity to attack women who have the 'wrong' views and get applauded for it.

You could equally well say "refugee" or "transwoman" is trying to create sympathy. Both have human interest, and give something about them in order that people can think about them as a person.
If you argue one is unacceptable, then so is the other.

Well yes they could be. Depending on your intended audience, "refugee" or "transwoman" could be used either to elicit sympathy or to signal that they're not worthy of sympathy. I haven't argued that their use is unacceptable - they are factual descriptors. That does not alter the fact that the media often sensationalises stories and does not present them neutrally.

How can we tell the difference? What is the difference between a male claiming to have a trans identity and a male present ending to have a trans identity? Both are males claiming to be women.

Exactly the point I made in my second para
I think the current situation where someone has to engage with a medical team, have a diagnosis and demonstrate a settled desire to transition is a good compromise tbh as it will weed put bad faith men while also putting in place some avenues for support for vulnerable people. I think TRAs arguing for self ID are just damaging their own position.

You seem confused. Women are concerned about transwomen in female single sex spaces because they are male, not because they are trans.

Trans identified males commit crimes at the same rate as any other male.
Data from prison populations both within the UK and the USA shows that transwomen are over represented in the male sex offender statistics. I do not believe this is because transwomen are more likely to be sex offenders but because sex offenders are more likely to say they are transwomen. Self ID makes this possible and therefore puts women more at risk.

Given that there are no criteria for "living as woman" it means that your average bloke can claim to be a woman in order to enter women's spaces and no one can challenge that without being accused of transphobia. This effectively turns all single sex spaces into mixed sex spaces.

Here is a link to a website which details such crimes, it's a useful record because the reports often detail offenders who suddenly discover they are transwomen after their arrest, possibly because they hope their "gender struggle" can be presented as mitigation for their crimes and they will get a lighter sentence or because they would prefer to serve their prison sentence in the women's estate.

transcrimeuk.com/

Perhaps you could spare a moment's concern for the vulnerable women being incarcerated with violent men. I do not think it's shocking for the press to report about women being raped by male prisoners when locked up by the state.

Reports from Scotland indicate that 50% of transwomen find they are not trans upon release from prison. Funny that.

I do wish people who complain about the headlines and MSM could be bothered enough to do further research before airing their disgust.

Cool. Still means they should use the spaces for their sex right? And you do know what you’ve just said is extremely transphobic according to the TRA? I’m all for people living how they choose as long as no one else is harmed or oppressed it, I think the way to keep single sex spaces for women is to demand men become more accommodating to gender non conforming males.

This.

It's only standing out now because the media, finally, have started occasionally, to report the truth. The facts of the perpetrators sex, rather than the petp's fantasy "gender".

It's maybe a bit jarring after a decade of male crimes being recorded and reported as female crimes. Barbie Kardashian. Karen White. Katie Dolotowski. Jessica Yaniv. All male.

Get used to it. The fantasy is over.

No it was your interpretation of Naunet's post that was disgusting. I took karma to mean Nicola losing her seat and reputation and the SNP losing the next Scottish Parliamentary election. But, obviously my brain doesn't work the way yours does.

YABU for using the term 'cis'

Isn't it because it's not considered that noteworthy that men commit offences - local newspapers have lots of details of violence by men against women every week.

By contrast, the reporting on TW is the media finally doing its job. We are supposed to see TW as women, but when they are raping women, some are clearly behaving as men do. That raises an important question as to whether they belong in single sex spaces, no?

Going to play Devil's Advocate here...

You may be right statistically. But I suppose it's particularly bad to commit a crime in a country which has given you refuge, so I guess it might legitimately cause more anger than the acts of a random 'home-bred' criminal.

Maybe learn to read what people actually write rather than making up your own fantasy narrative.

Just ignore Lockheart.

No one else thought you meant that because you didn't.

I hope NS suffers politically too. She has behaved abhorrently towards women.

Why are you being fighty with me?

I dgaf about being called transphobic. I'm used to it

If we're of a mind for compromising (which I am not) I would add SRS to the list of requirements.

Something like 98-99% of trans identified males choose to retain their penis, so I think gender reassignment surgery would serve to sort some of the bad faith men from those with "genuine" gender dysphoria. It would also eliminate the (quite literal) tool that enables the rape of women whose spaces are occupied.

Not righty. Just pointing out that your reasonable and sensible view would be considered transphobic by some. I agree there needs to be some gatekeeping, but still no males should be allowed in female spaces and vice versa. A male with a trans identity can get what ever diagnosis he chooses, take whatever drugs and surgery he likes, he still gets to use male spaces.

See I don't agree. SRS is a brutal and invasive surgery and doesn't always have good outcomes, so i don't think we should be pressuring people with gender dysphoria to have it to "prove" their trans status.

I think we should strengthen sex based exemptions in the EA for things like rape support, DVshelters, prisons, hospitals

And be mindful to keep the social contract where males in other spaces are there by permission and can be challenged. Toilets, changing rooms etc. How the male "identifies" is irrelevant, but i do think most women don't care about respectful genuine trans women using those spaces so let's keep the status quo

Obviously the TRAs are pushing for stronger definitions in which case I would say no males in female spaces, even if their penis has been removed

Only one of those groups of convicted rapists are being incarcerated in women's prisons. The rest go in the men's where they belong - where they ALL belong.

Just to be clear (before Twitter explodes), "ALL" means "all rapists".

How can anything be over exaggerated?

I think it's particularly telling that the OP didn't add the very real stirring of hatred towards women recently.

Just some pro-TRA rhetoric and force teaming trans with refugees.

but i do think most women don't care about respectful genuine trans women using those spaces so let's keep the status quo

but if those males with a trans identity were being respectful of women, they wouldn’t use female spaces would they? Why would any male who respected women deliberately use their spaces when women have said it makes them uncomfortable? Surely respectful, genuine people with a trans identity would be campaigning for third spaces?

I totally agree.

Given that it's clear how women feel about this any male who continues to use single sex spaces without consent can reasonably be considered to be a predatory male.

If trans women 'just want to pee' they can advocate for their own spaces and leave women alone.

Weird to create a poll where two almost diametrically opposite groups are teamed together.

Refugees are by definition vulnerable due to being forced to leave their homes and seek asylum in a foreign country. This may also intersect with other vulnerabilities such as race, being a child, female, not speaking the language of the new country.

Transwomen are not especially vulnerable. Firstly, as males, as a class they are not as vulnerable to the effect of male violence as women, nor as likely to be raped, nor can they get pregnant from rape. Stats show transwomen are a very safe demographic in the UK. As males they are economically and structurally advantaged.

Second, the term has been broadened to the extent that it no longer refers to dysphoric homosexual males driven to surgery after being subjected to homophobic and sexist upbringings. Historically, most women felt sympathy for these transwomen, even if on reflection they realise they were never asked for consent re space sharing. These transwomen are vulnerable in the same way gay, effeminate or insufficiently macho men are. The term "transwomen" now is just as likely to refer to a straight male who may or may not engage in degrees of stereotyped dressing, hormones or fake tits. These transwomen are not especially vulnerable. Many transition minimally and after fathering kids and reaping the rewards of a male pattern career.

Transwomen as a class keep the physical, economic and structural benefits of being male, with the added benefit of a rights movement that bypassed the grass-roots stage and went straight to the boardrooms, civil service and political parties.

Refugees have.... absolutely none of that. They leave their families behind, risk their lives and use their savings to get here, and end up, if they're lucky, being housed in flats full of mould in crime-ridden concrete jungles. They may have been a professional in their previous life but now might be prevented from working.

Re the media, you may be interested to learn that it was trans lobby groups who insisted that transwomen are referred to as women when reporting about crimes (which they commit at same rate as any other male, quite obviously!) This leads to the clickbait headlines. Nobody has the energy to read about all the violence committed by men, but see "woman exposes herself/ rapes / murders/ kidnaps" and you're so surprised that you have to click.