Page 18 | To think the media over exaggerate trans women and refugees?

SleepDreamThinkHuge · 2023-04-21T08:24:03+00:00

I have noticed in the media when trans women and refugees do crimes it is highlighted to such an extent compared to if say men commit rapes. When it is a trans women raping someone it leads to "women being unsafe" and the funny thing is a lot of people doing this faux outrage and pretending they care about women is from some men. It is strange when you hear things like "as a father or mother I worry for my child's safety they are not safe." Ok so what about when most sexual attacks are committed by cis men? You never heard them protest about that. It is the same with refugees you only hear the bad stories "oh he is gaining the system" "oh a lot of these refugees are rapists." There is no middle ground in both of these issues. Rape/sexual assault gaining the system is done by a minority of all people (black, Asian, White etc..) But when it is refugees or trans men doing crime it is highlighted to such as extent to which other groups that do the same crime e.g. white Brits is less highlighted and outrage is not as much.

AdamRyan · 27/04/2023 17:45

Seriously, having "concerns about uncontrolled immigration" is one thing but making up hypotheses based on no evidence is just scaremongering and really no basis for a debate

When you have actual evidence that immigrant men are more of a risk to women than any other man I'd be interested to see it, but until that time I think you are motivated by xenophobia and its impossible to debate with someone who's opinion is based on emotion not fact

Helleofabore · 27/04/2023 17:47

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 27/04/2023 17:36

Your indignance at me not jumping to heel and answering your every question is clear. It's a common tactic I see in this forum where if a poster says something that contradicts the usual discourse they get bombarded with questions which will then lead to further questions/a diversion of the topic, ultimately drawing focus away from the discussion which they are desperate to avoid.

You don't know anything about what my contribution to 'feminist work' is. I've already stated multiple times that I consider the trans issue worthy of attention but that it has a tendency to obfuscate bigger issues.

The general public is still pretty much oblivious to the trans thing in a day to day context but the vast majority disagree with self ID when the chips are on the table. However, the public view on immigration is very different, with most left leaning people being extremely hostile to those who talk about the need to manage immigration sensibly.

Typically people are seen as bigots if they express the view that mass immigration can be harmful and destabilising, and usually it's pointed out that other European countries have accepted a lot more immigrants. What isn't ever discussed is how these countries are experiencing large increases in sexual violence with the demographics in question featuring prominently in the statistics and being overrepresented in relation to their numbers. It's all about women and children fleeing violence with little acknowledgement that the vast majority are actually men under the age of 35.

How many times have we heard posters on here complaining that people are more welcoming to Ukrainian refugees because they're 'the right colour' etc? I'd say that race/colour is less the issue and it's more about patriarchal/misogynistic cultures.

You keep asking me what I'm doing but before identifying a solution you need to acknowledge the issue. I've stated many times that the trans issue is a problem, just less so than the sexual crimes being caused by unmanaged immigration. You, on the other hand, seem to be refusing to accept that the latter is an issue.

This is a somewhat odd stance seeing as how you keep saying that feminists are able to focus on several things at once. Why is it that you're not interested in doing that yourself?

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"You keep asking me what I'm doing but before identifying a solution you need to acknowledge the issue. I've stated many times that the trans issue is a problem, just less so than the sexual crimes being caused by unmanaged immigration. You, on the other hand, seem to be refusing to accept that the latter is an issue."

I assume you are talking to me here? Would you like to quote where I have said it is not an issue?

Please do. I look forward to it?

And yes, I am well aware you need to 'acknowledge the issue' to identify a solution. I believe we are past that, I am now asking you to identify a solution.

I reckon I have asked half a dozen or so times by now. Because you keep plonking down numbers saying 'look! See!' Yet not once suggesting what outcome you seek that will rectify this issues that is not already being done.

"This is a somewhat odd stance seeing as how you keep saying that feminists are able to focus on several things at once. Why is it that you're not interested in doing that yourself?"

Again, would you like to quote where I have denied that I am interested in this issue? Would you like to quote where I have not asked what your solution is?

Would you like to quote where I have not asked you to post your campaign so we can help?

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 27/04/2023 18:20

AdamRyan · 27/04/2023 17:41

Correlation does not equal causation

According to this (figure 5.02) the ethnic group where sexual offences accounts for the highest proportion of convictions is white men (21%)

Other groups vary from 14% to 17%

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/ethnicity-and-the-criminal-justice-system-statistics-2020/ethnicity-and-the-criminal-justice-system-2020#:~:text=Across%20the%20past%205%20years%2C%20White%20defendants%20consistently%20had%20the,and%20Black%20defendants%20at%2066%25.

So that's not at all consistent with your hypothesis

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But that's a bit of a disingenuous way to present the figures as I'm doubting that the prevalence of white men's sexual crimes are 17x higher than their prevalence in the makeup of our society.

And regarding correlation/causation I'm not convinced this is a valid argument when said individuals are literally perpetrating these crimes.

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 27/04/2023 18:24

And yes, I am well aware you need to 'acknowledge the issue' to identify a solution. I believe we are past that, I am now asking you to identify a solution.

I reckon I have asked half a dozen or so times by now. Because you keep plonking down numbers saying 'look! See!' Yet not once suggesting what outcome you seek that will rectify this issues that is not already being done.

And I'll state once again that I'm not going to jump to your command and derail the points I'm talking about. I'm not a member of the police force or homeland security etc. As I said the first step is to recognise the problem and many people don't seem to even have it on their radar.

If we counted all the threads on trans stuff and all the threads on the threat of sexual violence caused by immigration from patriarchal societies what do you think the numbers would be? I'm fairly confident that there would be more active trans threads right now than there have been threads about the other issue over the past decade.

AdamRyan · 27/04/2023 18:28

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 27/04/2023 18:20

But that's a bit of a disingenuous way to present the figures as I'm doubting that the prevalence of white men's sexual crimes are 17x higher than their prevalence in the makeup of our society.

And regarding correlation/causation I'm not convinced this is a valid argument when said individuals are literally perpetrating these crimes.

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Now I know you aren't arguing in good faith as I made a huge mistake and you didn't spot it so obviously are uninterested in understanding the data. 😂

OK, I'm out. Can be arsed to play pigeon chess today

Helleofabore · 27/04/2023 18:33

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 27/04/2023 18:24

And yes, I am well aware you need to 'acknowledge the issue' to identify a solution. I believe we are past that, I am now asking you to identify a solution.

I reckon I have asked half a dozen or so times by now. Because you keep plonking down numbers saying 'look! See!' Yet not once suggesting what outcome you seek that will rectify this issues that is not already being done.

And I'll state once again that I'm not going to jump to your command and derail the points I'm talking about. I'm not a member of the police force or homeland security etc. As I said the first step is to recognise the problem and many people don't seem to even have it on their radar.

If we counted all the threads on trans stuff and all the threads on the threat of sexual violence caused by immigration from patriarchal societies what do you think the numbers would be? I'm fairly confident that there would be more active trans threads right now than there have been threads about the other issue over the past decade.

This is great fun though. I think the readers are getting a really great live demonstration of the twisting and dishonest tactics that you are using.

Let's see.

You accuse me of stuff, I ask you to post the quotes where I have said stuff and you come back with this...

This is classic.

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 27/04/2023 18:34

AdamRyan · 27/04/2023 18:28

Now I know you aren't arguing in good faith as I made a huge mistake and you didn't spot it so obviously are uninterested in understanding the data. 😂

OK, I'm out. Can be arsed to play pigeon chess today

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Bydee bye 👋😂

Helleofabore · 27/04/2023 18:34

AdamRyan · 27/04/2023 18:28

Now I know you aren't arguing in good faith as I made a huge mistake and you didn't spot it so obviously are uninterested in understanding the data. 😂

OK, I'm out. Can be arsed to play pigeon chess today

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Adam, the indications were there from the first that this poster was never about engaging. Just shaming.

AdamRyan · 27/04/2023 18:37

Yeah. I'm a suckered for xenophobic appeals to fear though. Trying to fight the good fight against fascism, one post at a time....

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 27/04/2023 18:37

Helleofabore · 27/04/2023 18:33

This is great fun though. I think the readers are getting a really great live demonstration of the twisting and dishonest tactics that you are using.

Let's see.

You accuse me of stuff, I ask you to post the quotes where I have said stuff and you come back with this...

This is classic.

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No, I state that something is an issue which is largely ignored. You ask what I'm going to do about it and then have a tantrum because I won't give you an action plan as to how I'm going to single handedly resolve it.

My point is still the same as it was in my first post. The real world impact of mass immigration from patriarchal/misogynistic cultures is having a bigger effect on European women's safety than the trans issue.

AdamRyan · 27/04/2023 18:49

I see you've moved on from the UK to Europe, so as not to completely embarass yourself :D

Just because you think something is an issue doesn't mean anything. Some people think you can live on air if you have a pure enough spirit. It tends to be life limiting though.

Helleofabore · 27/04/2023 18:55

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 27/04/2023 18:37

No, I state that something is an issue which is largely ignored. You ask what I'm going to do about it and then have a tantrum because I won't give you an action plan as to how I'm going to single handedly resolve it.

My point is still the same as it was in my first post. The real world impact of mass immigration from patriarchal/misogynistic cultures is having a bigger effect on European women's safety than the trans issue.

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And here is the hyperbole. Let it flow!

"I won't give you an action plan as to how I'm going to single handedly resolve it."

No one expected you to. We did expect you to have some ideas to discuss though. Because you were shaming women who you felt were not prioritising this issue the way you wanted. (Or shall I join you in the hyperbole and say 'demanded' and I am sure I can work 'tantrum' in there somewhere if I felt like it.)

"The real world impact of mass immigration from patriarchal/misogynistic cultures is having a bigger effect on European women's safety than the trans issue."

According to you. Based on stats that you have not checked or provided links to original source material for. And thus people have disagreed with your prioritisation for the UK specifically, and you have not convinced anyone otherwise.

No one is saying you cannot post here and that your opinion is not welcome. However, your posts seem more about shaming women who disagree with you than contributing anything else.

So, let that hyperbole flow!

HeadNorth · 27/04/2023 19:11

@StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar I agree that the press wildly over report on the trans issue and that exaggerates the threat men posing as transwomen are to women. Women are most at risk from men identifying as men - most likely someone they know, a partner or a family member. That is the sad truth.

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 27/04/2023 21:14

AdamRyan · 27/04/2023 18:49

I see you've moved on from the UK to Europe, so as not to completely embarass yourself :D

Just because you think something is an issue doesn't mean anything. Some people think you can live on air if you have a pure enough spirit. It tends to be life limiting though.

Says the person who was complaining that my examples were all European and weren't relevant to the UK (which is why I included UK data).

I thought you'd flounced anyway.

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 27/04/2023 21:16

HeadNorth · 27/04/2023 19:11

@StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar I agree that the press wildly over report on the trans issue and that exaggerates the threat men posing as transwomen are to women. Women are most at risk from men identifying as men - most likely someone they know, a partner or a family member. That is the sad truth.

Indeed. I can't remember the last time I actually saw a transwoman in real life.

literalviolence · 27/04/2023 22:25

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 27/04/2023 21:16

Indeed. I can't remember the last time I actually saw a transwoman in real life.

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God, where do you live? I saw two last week. Plus some TW look just like men. It's transphobic of you to expect them to try and look like women.

literalviolence · 27/04/2023 22:29

HeadNorth · 27/04/2023 19:11

@StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar I agree that the press wildly over report on the trans issue and that exaggerates the threat men posing as transwomen are to women. Women are most at risk from men identifying as men - most likely someone they know, a partner or a family member. That is the sad truth.

Well yeah. That's why we used to have protected spaces for women. Now we don't. But the risk from men, regardless of how they identify, has not changed.

Helleofabore · 27/04/2023 23:52

StepAwayFromTheBiscuitJar · 27/04/2023 21:16

Indeed. I can't remember the last time I actually saw a transwoman in real life.

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I see them almost daily.

Helleofabore · 27/04/2023 23:55

One lives on the next street.

Baldieheid · 28/04/2023 11:14

The risk from males 8s the same, whether that male wears a dress or a boiler suit. Whether that male wears lipstick or gels his hair. Whether that male comes from the UK or elsewhere.

Males.

The risk is from males.

And this country, amongst many others, is busily dismantling all the safeguards and protections fought for over the last century, to hand women's protected spaces over to males. Any males. Dress or no dress. Refugee or UK born. Macho wrestler or effeminate actor. No differentiation.

Male, saying he's "woman". That's it. That's all it takes.

The whole world is fucking burning and its females, as usual, on the pyre.