AIBU to think that as a society we expect too much from mothers?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

The 8 month sleep regression is hitting us hard, so I might be more sensitive than usual as I’m exhausted.

However, as I try and resettle my baby, I can’t help but question how women are expected to do it all. How are women expected to give 100% of themselves to motherhood, 100% in their careers, 100% to trying to maintain a social life/being a person outside of motherhood and 100% of themselves to help running the home. The maths doesn’t add up and I feel like along the way of empowering women, things have changed but to just expecting women to do more than what’s actually manageable.

I think the first issue is the length of maternity leave and how long it’s financially supported (plus the ridiculously little amount maternity pay actually is).
Why can women take up to 12 months off, but only paid for 9 months? One of my arguments for a longer, financially supported maternity leave is that our babies need to get their main source of nutrition from milk for the first 12 months, so why doesn’t society support women being off for that long? There’s probably more arguments in the emotional support of babies being raised by their parents, instead of childcare, but too tired to look into this.
Luckily, we saved enough before having our baby to support me being off for 12 months, but baby needs me right now at 8 months and I can’t imagine putting them into childcare at 9 months, or even earlier.

The other issue I’m struggling to wrap my head around is how I’m expected to go back to work and give 100% whilst trying to be a mother. Parenting is exhausting, relentless and I can’t picture my life where I’m meant to give my all to work whilst trying to give my best to my child. Surely something will have to give, but with the cost of living my career can’t slip as we need me working, so naturally it’s seeing less of my child by working full time and having them be raised and looked after by nursery.

So, AIBU to think that as a society we expect too much from mothers? Surely there’s a better compromise than the current set up of maternity leave and more support from employers towards parents?

When I was at work k didn't think about my kids. I was focussed and it was a nice break from the drudgery.
Frankly it will always be something of a compromise in terms of time, but you have to be sure that when you are with your kids you are present, not thinking about an upcoming work meeting or project. And the same when you are at work.
Plus get your partner to take some of the life admin off your hands - you should only have to do 50% of that and 50% of childcare when both at home (bf only takes up a small amount of time for a very short part of a child's life).
I think many women don't want to give up the control though.

@mondaytosunday I think I’ll probably enjoy going back to work as I do love my team and the company I work for and can see it benefitting me being ‘me’ again, but when you are in the depth of sleepless nights again, it’s hard to imagine how I can be my old work self after such a massive life adjusting change?

@freyamay74 you are right, from an employers point of view it’s difficult. I think maybe my issue is with the modern world and how everyone is expected to work full time with children in tow.

Society relies on their being a next generation of people. The economy relies on it. We all individually rely on it (there are no pensions or hospitals or roads without tax receipts). If you want a workforce you need social policies and workplace policies that support families.

Where I work (massive organisation), we have policies allowing men to take generous paternity leave - though of course this is shared with mum, not in addition to. Maternity leave also generous, pay is generally good. Take up in the last five years has been less than 2%. In my department there have been 50-odd babies born to mums in that time. Guess how many mums reduced their leave so that their partner could take some? Zero.

Anecdotal but the women in my team have been horrified at the idea of reducing their "time with baby".

You can lead a horse to water etc...

Add in the fact that there are many more women who desperately want kids than men who just want to make their wives happy, and it's not really surprising that we end up where we are.

*"the fact that there are many more women who desperately want kids than men who do, as opposed to those who just want to make their wives happy", that should say.

@NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting

Society doesn't expect women to work full time.

It expects women to give up work and 'raise their babies' or at the very least go part time

Because society is sexist

So true.

Women are ordered to do it all. But no one wants to help.

We should all the the right to universal free childcare on demand.

I agree with you, particularly with this:

Even if you work in a way that enables two parents to work full-time and effectively play 'tag team' - what kind of life is that? Couples become like ships in the night and to be honest, it sounds absolutely shite. What is 'ideal' about that?

I know that some couples might not have a choice and other don’t mind a setup like this, but is it a viable option for the majority of people?

@maya48

It's ideal because it means both parents are equally responsible for childcare. And you generally don't need outside help

It was def worth it for us

It's precisely why women have never been so depressed and miserarable and so many marriages and relationships are failing.
Women are just expected to keep up no matter what, and are quite heavily frowned upon if the dont. Nobody applauds SAHMs, because apparently they don't work. Housework and childcare is unpaid work so not deemed valuable.
I had to go back to work part time when my son was only 17 weeks old, ( this was over 20 yrs ago) was still breastfeeding him and had to rush home in my breaks. It was so stressful and l hated it.
We have been fed such rubbish over the years, success now is solely measured on where you work , how much you earn, the size of your house, how many holidays you have, but the reality is a simpler slower way of life is much more enjoyable and meaningful.
I refuse to play along with it anymore, l work the minimum hours l can and happily manage on a small wage as my out goings are low. My wellbeing and MH has never been better.

@DancedByTheLightOfTheMoon

I'm glad you've found a balance that works for you, but some of the claims you make on a wider scale just can't be backed up by evidence. Why are you blaming marriage breakdowns on women being expected to 'keep up?' Why are you ignoring the fact that 50/60 years ago huge numbers of women were depressed and unfulfilled precisely because they couldn't work and were expected to stay at home? And as for saying no one values SAHM... surely it's valued by the SAHM herself and her partner? If it's a decision you make because you feel it benefits your family, surely that's what matters?

I agree. My mum was utterly miserable as a SAHP and it is her single biggest regret.

I am hugely grateful for having been able to balance my career and my family life effectively, and while it has involved some juggling at times, it has been well worth it.

And yes, if you and your family value what you do as a SAHP, then surely that's enough...it doesn't really make any difference to the rest of us.

It was an option for us, and we seized it with both hands. It enabled both of us to have lots of time with dd and to minimise our use of paid childcare etc. And yes, we saw each other a bit less in those years but we still had plenty of family time all together, and it was only a few years which is really nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Not saying that it would work for everyone but it certainly worked for us.

Exactly. We need to evolve as a society where it is the norm for dads taking time off to be there for their children. Be it paternity leave, taking annual leave during school holidays, leaving work early for appointments etc.

It needs to be the norm that childraising is the job for both parents, not the dad doing mum a favour by babysitting.

And, mums need to realise that just because they gave birth the baby doesn't belongs solely to them. I don't think I had a bigger or better bond just because I gave birth and bf DD. I think it would have been great for DH to have some time with DD as well when she I stopped bf and she wasn't in nursery yet.

Did you feel like this before you had children?

@NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting

💯

I’ve recently gone back to a 4 day per week job. But it could easily be full-time plus more.

Going back to work has been good for me in one sense. I found maternity leave quite bad for my mental health and I’m enjoying feeling good at something. However it’s still fucking tough and exhausting in a different way! I feel so stretched all the time. And that I’m letting everyone down because frankly I’m just not prepared to do the overtime I would have done pre child in order to get shit done, so I feel like I’m always having to say no to things.

And don’t even get me started on the state of the house!

I think it's too easy to say "men should feel the same as women" when it comes to separating from children. Some may do, but the majority don't. A lot is due to societal expectations - nobody would deny that - but also, this is an area where men and women, as a general rule, are different (psychologically and biologically). I know some on here will disagree, but there it is. I think if you work on the premis that men and women should always feel / react the same, it usually does women a disservice and makes it more difficult for them to define their own terms to suit them.

@maya48

I think men should be as capable nd as attached to their kids as women are

But it also does women a massive disservice when people try to suggest that they are somehow the natural caregivers for children, and that finding a balance between career and family life is somehow a women's problem rather than a parents' problem.

If women want to have a career and enjoy a happy family life, then there is one simple thing that needs to happen. Men need to step up and do their fair share. Arguing that they shouldn't have to because somehow they're just not feeling it lets them off the hook and keeps women trapped in situations where they have to either choose between their own career progression and financial independence or sucking it up and doing the double shifts at work and at home.

I don't think parents need to have the exact same feelings as each other but I've no doubt my dh loves our children as much as I do. His relationship with them is just as meaningful and strong. And he's certainly been just as capable as I am at changing nappies, playing games, cooking dinner....
Just as I'm equally as capable as him at going to work.

The problem with this is that on a societal level men aren’t desperate to have children in the way that women are. Sure, there are men who do really want kids but nowhere near as many as there are women who do.

Those men will never be as committed to 50/50 as the women are.

The best way for a woman to pursue equality is to pick one a man who is really keen to have kids as they’re more likely to actually take on the work. Some women prioritise the baby over the father of the baby, and they end up with one of the men that liked the idea of having kids or was ambivalent about it, but mainly signed up for it because his wife really wanted them. Getting equality out of that guy is next to impossible.

It’s all very well saying men should feel like women do about babies, but it doesn’t make it happen.

@fitzwilliamdarcy

I dont think thats true

I think men go through the same biological urges women do.

They're just too often let off the hook when it comes to the practicalities because of sexism.

Although I do agree it would be helpful if women stopped enabling it

I'm not saying men don't love their children just as much and I'm certainly not saying women shouldn't have careers. But I think in finding meaningful solutions, it's best to admit differences than perpetually trying to deny them and then feeling permanently frustrated.

@maya48 I agree entirely.