AIBU to think that as a society we expect too much from mothers?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

The 8 month sleep regression is hitting us hard, so I might be more sensitive than usual as I’m exhausted.

However, as I try and resettle my baby, I can’t help but question how women are expected to do it all. How are women expected to give 100% of themselves to motherhood, 100% in their careers, 100% to trying to maintain a social life/being a person outside of motherhood and 100% of themselves to help running the home. The maths doesn’t add up and I feel like along the way of empowering women, things have changed but to just expecting women to do more than what’s actually manageable.

I think the first issue is the length of maternity leave and how long it’s financially supported (plus the ridiculously little amount maternity pay actually is).
Why can women take up to 12 months off, but only paid for 9 months? One of my arguments for a longer, financially supported maternity leave is that our babies need to get their main source of nutrition from milk for the first 12 months, so why doesn’t society support women being off for that long? There’s probably more arguments in the emotional support of babies being raised by their parents, instead of childcare, but too tired to look into this.
Luckily, we saved enough before having our baby to support me being off for 12 months, but baby needs me right now at 8 months and I can’t imagine putting them into childcare at 9 months, or even earlier.

The other issue I’m struggling to wrap my head around is how I’m expected to go back to work and give 100% whilst trying to be a mother. Parenting is exhausting, relentless and I can’t picture my life where I’m meant to give my all to work whilst trying to give my best to my child. Surely something will have to give, but with the cost of living my career can’t slip as we need me working, so naturally it’s seeing less of my child by working full time and having them be raised and looked after by nursery.

So, AIBU to think that as a society we expect too much from mothers? Surely there’s a better compromise than the current set up of maternity leave and more support from employers towards parents?

You'll find that these expectations and the least amount of support come from women themselves. Women are their own worst enemies.

We have 3 young children, we both work ft, I still bf the youngest. Your focus is all on mums in this, dad's exist too and bar breastfeeding can and do as much as mums. Yes I took the mat leave as my husband doesn't lactate or do the giving birth bit, but from me returning to work when my children were between 9 and 12 months my husband and I have been equals when it comes to parenting. I do think men should have longer paid paternity leave, where I work men get 6 weeks fully paid which is great but my husband only got 2 weeks statutory paternity pay (peanuts). There aren't endless pots of money though so unfortunately men and women can't be off together for a year having a baby, it just can't happen.

Both men and women juggle working and trying to raise children, I don't personally feel that it all falls on me, but I have a good husband and I work in the public sector where they are flexible towards people with children whether you are male or female.

It was never about 'empowering women' op - that's just how they sold it to us.

I agree with your title… not at all with your conclusions!
IMO if women were taking short mat leaves it would be easier to go back to work and as a result not being « just mum ». Also easier to share the parenting with the dad when the mum hasn’t spent a full year doing most of it while on mat leave.
In France women often go to work after 3
months, or 6 months, but the 1y+ you have here in the UK are not the norm.

My husband is a teacher too, our kids have all been awful sleepers, but it doesn't mean he doesn't do his share because he can't have an easy day. It's teaching not brain surgery or driving a HGV!

You have my sympathy, sleep regressions are horrible!!
I think most people on mat leave probably go through this in their head at some point, I know I did to a certain extent. Honestly all parents are just winging it the best they can - nobody really expects 100% from parents of young children in any part of life. You just find a way to get by at eg. 80% of your actual potential for a few years. And then it gets easier (so I'm told - my DD is 2 and it's still hectic 😂).
I agree with most PPs that you might need to reflect on the expectations you have of yourself, and your partner. Mostly doing ok is good enough!

I think this is definitely one of the downsides of extended mat leaves. A whole year at home with the baby means that often by the time mum returns to work the family dynamic has entrenched into her being the 'main' parent and dad being supplementary 'help'. And it's hard to shift that upon returning to work. I often see mums say stuff like 'no point in me working, my entire wage would go to childcare' as if it's her responsibility alone, when in reality it's the responsibility of both parents or the family as a whole to pay for childcare.

Women are expected to parent as if they don't work, work as if they don't have kids.

A good summary.

I think it one of many factors in why we have a rapidly falling birth rate.

lower pension age so grandparents can help out (a lot of my friends all have the same issue as our parents are still working FT

We lived in an area where most people had extended family help with childcare and emergencies - we didn't and I found it made parenting harder as so many services expected that support - even when I was a SAHM they'd expect another adult to have the other kids or would refuse to work appointments round school/nursery times.

When DGP did retire - they were long distance way because we moved from work and one set had health issues other no interest in helping - they'd be working since 15 and hadn't enjoyed parenthood though are good GP.

At population level they need more people working for longer to fund aging population anything getting in the way of that won't go though - plus some especially women need to work longer if they took time our for their kids to build up pensions. The government may do something about childcare costs but that will be so more mothers can remain in the workforce paying tax in.

100% agree. The big myth that women could have it all the home the family the career. What a load of bull. We just run ourselves into the ground trying to achieve the impossible. You can’t convince me otherwise and I say this as a woman/ mother/ worker etc.

Yes, me too.

What use is having all this stuff on paper if the day to day is miserable.

Your solution is to give mums more time off work, fund childcare until the kids go to school and lower the pension age.

That’ll require some big tax rises, which - shocker - will be paid by childless people, as always.

Of course it's a myth that women can 'have it all.' But I do believe that it's possible for women and men to have a good balance in life whereby both can earn, both can have responsibility for caring, both can cook, shop, do housework....

Surely that's a positive model to aim for? Not just expecting mums to have longer and longer leave which places responsibility firmly on them for everything child-related, and also has the knock on of making women of child-bearing age a less attractive proposition for employment.

@Vivalaive

Speak for yourself

I do and i will. I think it’s a load of rubbish. Just look at the threads on here! Women ask for help from family/ grandparents and get shot down that ‘they had the children they should look after them.’ Women try to return to work after having said children and face being overlooked for promotions, looking unreliable when having to take time off to look after children etc. Women often have to straddle both motherhood, work, childcare, house etc and the struggle is real.

@Vivalaive

🤷‍♀️

It can be a struggle. It's not always easy but it is doable.

As I said, we have a great work life balance

She doesn't seem to think childless people should retire earlier - only grandparents so they can provide childcare.

@Vivalaive but so long as it carries on being framed as a women's problem then nothing will change! The solution isn't to expect women to take more time out of the workplace, to fall even further behind in earnings and in achieving ambitions, while in inverse proportion, men do less and less in the home and with the kids.

Surely life is about both women and men achieving a healthy life balance.

I read it as lowering the universal age to allow grandparents to help, but actually it makes much more sense to only apply that to grandparents. Someone has to be working to pay for this, after all!

I believe it’s been a struggle for you. And some other women.

It was tough for us too. But I had a decent husband. I knew the baby days wouldn’t be forever. I am a great mum and great at my career. I am proud of my adult kids and they are of me.

It has worked out fine and my profession has not lost another woman to motherhood. My friends never gave up either and we are all glad we worked.

What’s the alternative? A workforce with no women? Especially at senior levels.

Work is tough but also good for mental health overall. I think people forget that.

You do not speak for all women and neither do I.

@WoefulLackOfEverything I agree with you.

Let's face it, none of it is easy! Parenting is hard work and continues for years and years... it's not all about the baby bit. I don't think men and women are vastly different in their aspirations and what they want in life... I know my dh and I both wanted to be parents, we both have jobs we're good at and ambitions we wanted to achieve. We were going through the baby years when things were vastly more difficult than now (short ML, no paternity/transferable leave) and it does seem strange now things are so much better that some women still seem to want to go backwards in terms of equal opportunities

@traytablestowed I think as we’ve gone from a unicorn babe who has slept 11 hours straight for nearly two months, to waking every 3 hours and fighting naps, it’s definitely hitting hard.
This whole thought process is probably due to muddled clarity of panic that things will never return to normal.

@freyamay74 I appreciate hearing so many different opinions, but I’m now wondering if maybe the modern set up isn’t working for parenting overall? Long days of commuting and working whilst juggling childcare, school holidays and the inevitable sickness that comes with having a child? I definitely not expecting things to go backwards, but to go forward to having a world with maybe a better work/life balance?

I honestly don’t know the answer or what I’m expecting, but maybe I’d love to have a culture that’s more flexible towards families and the hardship of raising children.

OP! Please don’t think you are alone in these thoughts / feelings!

there are some amazing accounts to follow on insta and Facebook - Pregnant then screwed, A mothers place, Motherkind (motherkind has a podcast which is amazing also). They frequently say that sadly something will have to give - if you are smashing it at work, you are prob not at home and vice versa. Also Zoe blaskey from podcast I mentioned had a post natal specialist on that said it’s the hardest time to be a parent since the Second World War as many people don’t live near family, don’t have a village to keep cost of childcare down, nursery and mortgages are the highest they have been in generations (certainly since our parents and our working managers had their kids). It’s hard!

if you do read up on pregnant then screwed - we are pretty low on the maternity leave support in the western world - the Scandinavian countries give 1 year for mother and 1 year for father to take until child is 2 to help with bonding and cost! There nursery is also subsidised by the government because they make back around £3 for every £1 they invest in childcare off the salaries of the mothers returning to work / not on benefits/ also it means that all their children start primary school on level playing field for learning - which then requires less support from
government for struggling learning areas.

I went back to work with my son after 10.5m and he went into a few days at nursery and a few days with me whilst working from home. He didn’t sleep through the night and I was breastfeeding until 12 months - it was hard, but work were surprisingly kind and I had to accept that my productivity wouldn’t be back to normal for some time- but not forever as when he gets 30free hours or school I can ramp up again!

I am currently 6 weeks into mat leave with second one!

it sounds silly - but you will find a way to make it work and every day will get slightly easier with the juggle! Hang in there and sending solidarity

@NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting

Things are moving in that direction though. I think it's always difficult to see it when you're in the thick of it though. I remember when I was expressing milk, still doing night feeds and psyching up to leave our 12 week old with a childminder, thinking how much easier it must have been for my mother who was a SAHM. But of course that's completely overlooking the fact that she had no choice. She was just as capable as my father but the lack of regulated childcare in the 1960s meant opportunities for women were far more limited.

When you're going through a tough patch it's easy to think the past was easier or better but from my perspective as a woman in her late 50s, things are way better now, there have been huge leaps in maternity entitlement and things like flexi working and transferable leave. I also believe the balance now is about right. If women were expected and paid to be off work for more than a year, it could easily act as a disincentive for employers to take on women of child bearing age. It's an issue that needs to be looked at in the round... from all angles. I can see that if you're a mum struggling on maternity leave it might be tempting to wish for another paid year before the challenge of returning to work. But if you're running a business, or managing a team, you'd probably find it a nightmare having employees out of the workplace for over a year, with your hands tied so you can't appoint anyone else on a secure contract.

Yes. It’s scary that women want to go backwards and yearn for an age where men dominated the workplace. Simpler times! 😫

We have far to go, but goodness don’t we want woman MPs, chief execs and judges? And making up a representative proportion of the workforce at every level? We need more men in caring professions. So much imbalance to correct still.

Having young kids is hard. It’s even hard when you don’t work. But that doesn’t mean women should step back from the workforce 🤯

Yes all societies expect too much of mothers, but particularly working ones. Few women really want to put their babies in full-time childcare, but too often, they are forced to these days and even told they should be grateful! Even if you work in a way that enables two parents to work full-time and effectively play 'tag team' - what kind of life is that? Couples become like ships in the night and to be honest, it sounds absolutely shite. What is 'ideal' about that? Also, that kind of set up probably leads to both parents just treading water, career-wise, as they're always rushing home to relieve the other one so they can get to work! Not to mention the tiredness and how that impacts your health and well-being and energy for the children.

There is always a compromise - whether it's being separated from your child too much and / or too soon; a toll on your marital relationship because you burn opposite ends of the candle; or you take a career hit (although most families these days can't afford to do that unfortunately). But apparently, this is all 'progress.' YANBU OP.