AIBU to think that as a society we expect too much from mothers?

[NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting]

The 8 month sleep regression is hitting us hard, so I might be more sensitive than usual as I’m exhausted.

However, as I try and resettle my baby, I can’t help but question how women are expected to do it all. How are women expected to give 100% of themselves to motherhood, 100% in their careers, 100% to trying to maintain a social life/being a person outside of motherhood and 100% of themselves to help running the home. The maths doesn’t add up and I feel like along the way of empowering women, things have changed but to just expecting women to do more than what’s actually manageable.

I think the first issue is the length of maternity leave and how long it’s financially supported (plus the ridiculously little amount maternity pay actually is).
Why can women take up to 12 months off, but only paid for 9 months? One of my arguments for a longer, financially supported maternity leave is that our babies need to get their main source of nutrition from milk for the first 12 months, so why doesn’t society support women being off for that long? There’s probably more arguments in the emotional support of babies being raised by their parents, instead of childcare, but too tired to look into this.
Luckily, we saved enough before having our baby to support me being off for 12 months, but baby needs me right now at 8 months and I can’t imagine putting them into childcare at 9 months, or even earlier.

The other issue I’m struggling to wrap my head around is how I’m expected to go back to work and give 100% whilst trying to be a mother. Parenting is exhausting, relentless and I can’t picture my life where I’m meant to give my all to work whilst trying to give my best to my child. Surely something will have to give, but with the cost of living my career can’t slip as we need me working, so naturally it’s seeing less of my child by working full time and having them be raised and looked after by nursery.

So, AIBU to think that as a society we expect too much from mothers? Surely there’s a better compromise than the current set up of maternity leave and more support from employers towards parents?

You didn’t mention your husband in your original post. You don’t need to do everything, split it. If there was better paternity leave, women wouldn’t feel the burden is all on them. We split our leave, so both know how hard it it to look after a baby full time, and work whilst getting little sleep. The result is we both work and parent equally and nothing is 100% on one person. I don’t feel expected to do it all just because I am a women.

I am currently living abroad and the maternity is 3 months, I do agree that it should be paid 12 months.
I do think that it is important that you prioritise, it is impossible to give everything 100%.
Work stays at work for me, and when I am home that is time for me and my children. Also, if you have a partner it is so important that you work together and share the load when it comes to cooking, housework etc.
All other mum friends say how hectic it is, but the way to cope is to realise you can't do everything.

Oh please. We have brought this upon ourselves. From the 80s women have been demanding a career and the right to motherhood. We looked up to the Nicola Horlicks' of the world and wanted to be like her.
If you really think, OP, that 12 months mat leave will be used to breastfeed you are sadly mistaken. Logic dictates if you don't bf, you go bck to work if you use that reason for extending mat leave
And perhaps consider the effect mat leave has on an employes, and that when mothers do return to work, many, as you think you will be, are not fully engaged in their work because they want to be with their child and/or are knackered
So unless you want society to bend over backwards to meet the individual maternity requirements of all women, or you leave work once you've had a kid, you need to find a workable solution that satisfies everyone

@NameChangeAsICouldBeOverReacting I don’t expect women to be demoted from the workplace and go back to the days where there was no equity, but at the same time we’ve moved to a place where the expectation is too much.

But who is expecting you to do too much of everything? Why would you be working full time and doing 100% of the parenting and 100% of the home stuff? Where is your husband?
If anything the problem is too many people have low expectations of man and women end up making up the short fall but change starts at home and you don’t have to live that life if you don’t want to.

A supportive partner/other parent makes all of the difference. My ex did hardly anything when DS was young and of course his big important job always came before mine. My DH now is amazing though, when we had a baby he did his share of night wake ups, stuff around the house, never grumbled at me going out with friends or to my sport; when I went back to work he did half the sickness days, school holidays and although be earns more never treated my job as secondary or expected me to work and do everything.

I agree society has a lot to answer for and to change for this to be commonplace, so many men expect mums to do everything and then slip back into work as if nothings happened.

Yea i agree OP but as others have pointed out us women can put too much pressure on ourselves....however the woeful lack of funded childcare in the UK really isn't helping this situation. Too many women are making compromises about their careers etc to accommodate the costs and practicalities of childcare and this burden falls disproportionate on women..we need a system that views parenting more as a joint effort.

It will be replicated in this country if this government remains in power.

But that's what Brexit voters voted for.

@Hedwigharlot he doesn’t do the night wakes as I BF and that’s the quickest and easiest thing to our baby back to sleep.

from your logic, women shouldn’t do the most natural thing and breastfeed to try and get more sleep? That’s a strange opinion.

We expect too little of fathers, especially separated fathers.

No one is giving 100% anything, to anything.
It’s your responsability figure how much you give to and to what with the choices you have made.

And honestly, why are you only now thinking about this?
It hasn’t been a secret in years/decades how things are.
Why now demand more leave?
Why didn’t you think this before choosing to have a kid?

I don’t agree with increasing the length of paid maternity leave. I was desperate to get back to work at 9 months because I hated maternity leave. Having a full year paid for, even SMP, I wouldn’t have felt I could go back earlier because everyone felt I needed to be more maternal and stay off longer. My DD started nursery at 9 months and got of us couldn’t have been happier. One size doesn’t fit all.

I would support more money going to women who want to work but can’t because of low wages. Not all women who stop work are wealthy, many don’t earn enough to pay for nursery fees.

I also think we need to start challenging men more. But honestly what you need is senior male staff to flex their hours for childcare, take extended paternity leave, come in and say they’re tired because of regressions then it creates an atmosphere that working parents feel like they can parent and work.

Parenting of young children is hard. Working FT/PT and managing nursery costs, one parent staying home or parents working opposite shifts it’s hard regardless.

The place of women in society has never been as good as it is now! Go back several decades and you'll find women didn't have the option to work once they became a parent. Women would be sacked for getting pregnant! Women couldn't take out mortgages or be considered as a person in their own right for taxation. Fast forward a bit and things improved but maternity leave was woefully short (I returned to work when my dc1 was 12 weeks) and there was no option for shared leave.

Imo the balance is about right now. 9 months paid leave, with the option of taking a full year, or transferring some leave to the dad... and of course it's entirely possible to continue bf longer term. I did and that was when working with a 12 week old.

There's no bottomless purse to pay people to stay out of the workplace for years and years. There has to be a balance and I'd say it's about right.

I agree it’s hard OP especially that sleep between about 8 and 10 months, it annoyed me so much, like baby seemed big enough to not need to wake up 3/4 times a night but still did. However for us when that happened I was already back at work so all of those wake ups were shared with my husband. He’d use milk I pumped in the day.

Though I generally agree with this:Women are expected to parent as if they don't work, work as if they don't have kids.

I am grateful though that as a working mother I have the choice to push my career as much or as little as I want. I have access to good quality full time childcare and my family and parter are very supportive of my choices. My workplace certainly doesn’t expect less of me because I’m a woman with a young child (and I’ve just told them I’m pregnant again!). Though they are great at allowing flexibility when I need it.

I think we’ve come a long way, though there is still further to go.

In my industry enhanced maternity pay doesn’t really exist. Maternity leave will be very hard for us financially especially if we want to keep DC1 in nursery.

For context I am an architect, I had my first child mid 20s and it really wasn’t the right time in my career to take a full year off, I went back when DS was around 6 months old and pumped milk at work until 13 months. I saw it as a bit of a trade off, we could have kids young and then be in a position to have more flexibility work wise when they were older or we could wait until our careers were more established. We decided that we didn’t want to put off having children. But I changed jobs to somewhere that is a much better place to work.

I wouldn’t say I give 100% the same as I did before children but I don’t want to. Before I would only stop working in the evening to eat and would carry on until 10. Working into the early hours of the morning wasn’t uncommon. Now I work my hours and I come home.

Its about finding what helps facilitate this for you though. Whilst I was breastfeeding I did the majority of wake ups for obvious reasons (although DH would often change the nappy if needed etc)- but he would make sure stuff was prepped for the next day, do washing and housework to ensure that during the day when he was at work I could use the time baby was napping to rest rather than having to do stuff around the house. I did do housework of course, but knowing x, y or z was done and I could actually nap or watch crappy telly with a cup of coffee was fab. Its finding a balance that works for you both I think and that'll vary for everyone.

Exactly this! A man is treated as a superhero if he takes his baby or toddler out for a morning. 🙄

And if a woman goes out without her baby/child, people ask if the DH/partner is "babysitting". If a man went out on his own no one would question the mother was looking after the kids.

I just gave up my job didn’t go back. I couldn’t face it. My job was a massive long hours international travel City job. The thought of it and having a baby made me want to cry. Probably be shouted down as an anti feminist but then had 6 happy years doing motherhood undistracted and loved it. Yes I list out financially. Started work again when second started school. Now nearly 50 and looking back so happy with those choices.

I think you're right to an extent but find it interesting you havent mentioned fathers.

For example fathers can share paternity leave. Fathers can be an equal parent at home. I don't give a shit what society expects in some respects, I made it clear before we had kids that I expected my husband to do half of everything - sick days, kids appointments, pick ups, drop offs, mental load...and he does. You say society expects that women do 100% of household management stuff but again I expect my babys father to do half.

When you've got someone equally sharing all the outside work stuff, it's much easier to give 100% at work (if you want to, otherwise a lot more places let you reduce hours now)

It’s completely dramatic to claim someone is suggesting you shouldn’t breastfeed because they are saying you need to take accountability in your own life. You’re the one saying you’re exhausted, complaining that you’re doing 100% and can’t possibly add a job on top.
It’s perfectly reasonable for the dad to do some of the night wakes at 8 months. At that age by baby wasn’t hungry every single time they woke and dad could cuddle them back to sleep. I don’t know why you think it’s such an outlandish suggestion.

Forget "society". Women are allowed to choose their path in life. You have a ton of rights here in the UK, which women died for.

What do YOU want?

Get clear on that and fuck anyone who tries to pass judgement on you. It's none of their business. Live YOUR life not some fake people pleasing martyr version the media shoves down our throats. No one has to be nice to you and let's be clear, no one will ever consistently put you first except you.

There really are very few rules and a hell of a lot of freedoms for you. Take the opportunities.

Sad to see this
Make a list of all the chores and activities with your DH and split them up

Some ideas

• I do evenings. DH does mornings ie I just get up 8am and go to work, DH does school run
• when kids were small took it in turns sat / sun lie in
• DH to share night wakings
• I buy everything (food clothing household) and cook. DH does all laundry and hoovering, household. Diy garden and car (tile split is the same)
• split up the kids. I always have run play dates and activities for girls, he did boys. I have never been to some of my sons activities for instance
• both of us work in home until jobs are done rhe 'No sit down' rule. Not sit down until ageeed jobs are complefe
• younger years both of us always 1 night our a fortnight with friends plus 1 date night a week

Come on you can do this! Don't become a martyr or even worse, give up your income sue to a wobble!!

Once babies are 9-12m in London there's no women around. At school age in London it's "40-% dad and Nan not mother dominant ag pick up and many kids at after school
Club (maybe 30%). Mother does not rule in London childcwre af all.

I agree with this!

I still breastfeed DS who’s almost 2 but by 8 months me and his dad shared night wake ups. He used a bottle of expressed milk. It took longer for him to settle baby but I needed sleep just as much as he did.

It’s telling you didn’t mention your husband in the OP. I reckon he is pretty useless.

So what if he is a teacher. I am a hospital consultant and went back FT when each of my three were eight months. I was the higher earner. My husband worked full time too. But we shared everything. Night wakings, nursery drop-offs, cooking, cleaning and everything else. We worked as a team. It was not easy at all some days, esp when they were very young. But together we managed.

No regrets at all. Kids happy young adults now. Great career etc.

I would not downgrade my career because I am a ‘mother’. Just as you would not dream of making your husband give up his Big Important Teaching Job. Get a better partner or change what you want to do with your life. Some of us want to keep our careers and be mums too thanks.

I see where you are coming from OP but honestly, I think the bugger issue is that we expect too little of men.

You don't even mention him in your op. Then you say he's a teacher so he needs his sleep. That just made me laugh. Teachers are more.often women. I bet you £10000000 that the vast bulk of them do the night waking etc because their partner needs his sleep more because he earns more!! There is ALWAYS a reason why the man can't be tired.

Gently, it seems to be that you don't actually want to go back to work. You wsnt to be with your baby and you are upset that finances etc mean you must? Doesn't mean that your comments about expectations of women are all wrong, but I think it is colouring your thinking.

You might do all the feeds but why isn't he doing (say) all the bathtimes? When he is on school holidays you shouldn't need to do anywhere near as much of any housework or childcare.

Breastfeeding is naturally harder on the Mum. It's also natural to bottle feed. Either are making sure the baby is fed.