Kids running around in church

[ThatFraggle]

I'm not religious but sometimes go with someone who is. This week there were three toddlers screaming/crying/babbling through the service.

Their parents let them run up and down the aisle. At one point one mum picked the kid up, but instead of going to the back, just sort of hung around in the middle of the aisle with the kid. As if she wanted us to be like 'awww what an adorable little scamp.' During the service.

I can imagine that for someone spiritual it's especially annoying when trying to pay attention to the sermon or the prayers, reading etc.

Honestly, if you know you've got a screamer, you are not going to be able to bring the kid to church for a couple of years, or alternate with a partner if you have one.

Yes, Jesus loved children, but it doesn't mean little Tarquin should get to scream through the service.

AIBU to be really annoyed about disruptive children in church?

Messy church sounds like a fabulous idea and I’m bringing it up to our faith leaders. There’s a pushback against the unsmiling shouty men who terrified us which is amazing.
anyway, they don’t have a leg to stand on cause the prophet Muhammad used to let his grandchildren climb on his back while praying, so checkmate, old men.
But I’m learning a lot about Christianity on this thread so that’s really cool. Soon I will have a deeper knowledge of just Protestant and Catholic

It's confusing, isn't it @Pertinentowl , when people do both nice and awful things? Nice to your grandma, but a racist or religious bigot, depending on the root of his issues.

People with faith/ religion are just as complicated as people without!

It wasn't an informal service. It was an Anglican mass
My experience of communion services is that they still vary in atmosphere between services and between churches. When I've attended with friends and relatives, different churches have different levels of formality.

If the church has accepted that this is a service open to families and they're quite informal with their expectations then who are you as a non-congregation member to start complaining that the regular attenders of that church are doing it wrong?

My dad used to take me, my Dbro and Dsis to Mass every week. We’re Catholic and there was no Sunday School or toys at the back of church. He never raised his voice to us once and we never misbehaved. We just knew we couldn’t. He took the three of us from being babies.

The church near us says church is not a building. They set out toys at the back, and some of the parishioner helpers will happily take babies for rocking and toddlers to be shown toys, so that the parent get a break. It isn't ever ridiculously loud, just an occasional shout that someone or other manages; drinks and snacks get rolled out too. They have some separate times in the week for rowdy toddler groups, plus other separate times that people can go there if they want to join a peaceful prayer group or whatever. (I suspect you'd find someone even then who'd be willing to step out and mind a little one.) I loved their toddler groups even though I didn't need anyone to take DS, but I've seen multiple mums at the end of their patience be given the relief that they belong, that someone will help with the little one and that they can take a minute. I think it's nice, it's largely an actual community rather than a quiet space for reflection, with that time available but more limited.

By contrast, there's another church here with a homophobic vicar and about 5 elderly parishioners, that one always seems quiet. Maybe look around to find a church that suits you better.

Our Catholic Church is very family friendly and welcoming to all. We have three 'Sunday' masses including one very traditional one and there are plenty of children at them all, especially babies coming weekly from a young age.

I'd say children are generally very well behaved, however I personally love a toddler breakout down the aisle on an occasion. Our priest is often joined by a learning disabled parishioner during his homily too. He is respectful and welcoming to her - it's what Jesus did and what the Pope role models too.

Our church is very busy and I'm sure this is driven very much by what a lovely place it is for ALL.

I honestly don't mind, in fact I quite enjoy it, particularly little toddler babbles and excitement. Also, to my shame I might've caused one or two to be extra loud for a bit by smiling at them or waving or pulling a face. They make me smile and it genuinely gives me a nice feeling.

You're the one saying there's a right way and a wrong way to worship, not me. Personally I believe everyone should be free to worship in their own way. Bringing children into the church family is the ONLY way faith survives, none of us live forever and if children don't find faith then faith dies out. your intolerance and unwelcoming attitude to people worshipping differently to you is the unchristian part. Christian faith is all about tolerance and welcome, and yet there you are with the attitude that children should be hidden away silently so they don't interrupt your idea of worship.

I agree with you to some extent. It can be really hard to concentrate on the teaching if there are children running around and screaming. Most of all, for the parents themselves. I have 3 small children and go to church on my own with them every week. It’s very stressful if they kick off in the service. However, that’s not an argument to keep young families out, but for the church to provide a children’s program. I’ve just set up Sunday School in our church and now have a steady group of regulars but it’s really hard getting volunteers (and the safeguarding training that I had to do was so intensive it’s a huge commitment for me to lead it). If you’re a regular at church and find children annoying in the service PLEASE PLEASE offer to help with Sunday School!! It makes so much difference for everyone!

How did the child's parents know that none of the congregation were autistic or hard of hearing? Or does consideration only go one way?

an early traditional service and a later family service.

This.

The family service for, well, families.

Advice upthread to take noisy DC to the early service in order to minimise the number of people disturbed would not be helpful in our local church.

Finding which services are designed around the needs of parents and DC would IMHO be more helpful.

I go to a small church where the number of children exceeds the number of adults, so it can get noisy at times. However we are one big family, and we all help each other out if some of the kids are upset/crying. Our vicar is really relaxed about children's noise (helped by the fact he's a big kid himself - my DS calls him a 'mega teenager'). If you remove the families from our church, you are left with about 3 people.

YABVVVU. This is one of my pet hates and I see it quite often on MN: non-religious people insisting that church 'should' be very formal because that's their mental picture of a church (often formed from going exclusively for weddings and funerals). It is in such contradiction with what church actually is and is for.

At my church they have a separate Sunday club for over 4s but under that they stay with you. Yes, that means you sometimes get crying babies or loud toddlers. Today mine embarrassed me slightly because DH did the NT reading and he was quite loudly amazed to see 'daddy!' up in the pulpit. People were very nice about it, as I'd expect, tbh. If he was actively stopping others being able to hear I would take him out and I always try and encourage him to play quietly but he's two. Just not going to church for years is absolutely not an option.

I really believe that a) the only way they get good at 'doing' church is by practicing - my 2 year old is much 'better' (quieter) in church than his older brother was when we first started going again after COVID, even though he was older by then b) church is for everyone. It's a place of active worship, not a museum. We have several congregation members who have learning difficulties, dementia, etc and they can also be noisy - this is actually something that I think is a brilliant side-effect about taking children to church, because there are sadly few other places where they see adults with these kinds of disabilities being treated as fully part of the community. And finally c) children should actually enjoy church too - they're also part of the congregation. Mine both actively enjoy and are pleased to go and I think that's more important than ensuring a funereal hush at all times.

YABVVVU. This is one of my pet hates and I see it quite often on MN: non-religious people insisting that church 'should' be very formal because that's their mental picture of a church (often formed from going exclusively for weddings and funerals). It is in such contradiction with what church actually is and is for.
I agree.
Although I've not got any skin in the game, I couldn't imagine attending a place of worship with a religious friend and then deciding I knew best about how their congregation chooses to worship.

I was asked to leave a C of E family service because my toddler was doing his toddler activities at the back of the church. The old ladies didn't like it apparently. I had no one to babysit him and he was too young for children's club. I was supervising him, but he just wasn't wanted there. This was over 20 years ago.

My church now has children and toddlers there and it doesn't bother me at all. I always remember how rejected I felt back then and would never want anyone to feel the same way. The priest's little boy was giving us all his pretzel snacks the other day. Such a cute moment, and wouldn't have wanted to have missed it for the world.

If you can't cope with young children behaving as young children do why that is the problem of the visitor to chirvh - how does that make them less welcome.

That's such a shame, I've never experienced that.

I would imagine they love seeing children there. Religion is dying out so it's good to have children introduced to the church from a young age, therefore YABU, church is for families!

YANBU. We take our 4 year old DS. The church is very welcoming and the vicar lovely, but letting your DC run up and down the aisles is selfish and disruptive. We take him to play at the back, quietly, or outside when he was younger.

And dogs in church?? WTAF?

Ideally the parent would pop out or in another part of the Church to to attend to said screaming child and not to disrupt the service for others.

The popular Anglican Church near me has three services and generally cater for everyone, in which one is a family service with lots of babies and kids.

I'm also a leader of the children's group at our church (I don't know if 20 year old me would have been more amused or horrified to discover that I would be a literal Sunday school teacher by 35) and I think it's fantastic work you're doing - setting it up from scratch is impressive - but it's a shame to see it primarily as a way to keep the children out of the way. I think it should be a way of making them feel more at home and welcome at church, not a way of placating those who might be annoyed by them! In our church (surely in most churches?) they come back for communion anyway, so it wouldn't please the poster who is most angry about children on this thread!

Shitty parents don't stop being shitty even in Church unfortunately

Screaming kids are an absolute PITA anywhere. Especially when the parents just cannot read the room.

So our church-
We encourage parents to be sensitive of quiet and loud sections of the service
We have praise bags for the worship for the kids with ribbons, sensory scarves, egg shakers and some cards- quiet and loud, one about emotions do you feel happy, sad, scared excited etc, and one encouraging lots of different movements for worship- jumping, sidestepping, waving hands, twirling etc
So yes it gets noisy, but the kids during worship are at the front of the church dancing and being mad but that's exactly how church should be- we then take them out during the sermon to Sunday school/creche etc

Are you a Christian? Do you regularly attend church?