Kids running around in church

[ThatFraggle]

I'm not religious but sometimes go with someone who is. This week there were three toddlers screaming/crying/babbling through the service.

Their parents let them run up and down the aisle. At one point one mum picked the kid up, but instead of going to the back, just sort of hung around in the middle of the aisle with the kid. As if she wanted us to be like 'awww what an adorable little scamp.' During the service.

I can imagine that for someone spiritual it's especially annoying when trying to pay attention to the sermon or the prayers, reading etc.

Honestly, if you know you've got a screamer, you are not going to be able to bring the kid to church for a couple of years, or alternate with a partner if you have one.

Yes, Jesus loved children, but it doesn't mean little Tarquin should get to scream through the service.

AIBU to be really annoyed about disruptive children in church?

If however, your beef is with the parents allowing excessively noisy behaviour in a formal service then I’m pretty much with you. I have three DC and have always, always either kept them reasonably quiet in church services where there was no provision for children or taken them out if that became impossible.

I think part of the problem here is that what is 'excessively noisy' is in the eye of the beholder. Things that OP complains about include 'babbling', that the children were moving about and that someone holding a child didn't appropriately hide themselves in shame at the back of the church. I would and have always removed either of my children if they were screaming or shouting, but I don't expect my toddler to sit completely still for an hour and a quarter each Sunday, and nor do I think you can expect silence from a child who is still at babbling age. I just don't know how you teach them without some mis-steps, either - for instance my two year old now does know that he isn't allowed into the choir, he has to stay in the nave, but that understanding was developed through what felt like a long and irritating phase when he was just over one of him constantly trying to climb the side steps and one of us constantly stopping him and lifting him back down (the side steps are next to the children's play area).

@Hardbackwriter the struggle is real! 😄 Is it even church if you aren’t spending 40 minutes hissing bloodcurdling threats behind a pillar?

Were the gods noisy? If they weren't what was the problem?

That's very nice of you all, I hope those parents appreciate it, I'm sure they do 🙂 you are definitely much nicer and more tolerant than me! 😀

Absolutely love this typo in the context of this thread!

@Hardbackwriter I hadn't even noticed 😂

Best typo!

Churches have changed for the better when families are encouraged to enjoy services rather than being lectured for an hour.

No wonder people don't want to go

Happy medium in all things! Yes to a bit of quiet chattering or occasional fidgeting/mild wandering; No to running around and making lots of noise.

People saying that an 'anything goes' policy is welcoming - only for some! It would put me off and is probably putting off lots of other people. Can't someone arrange a creche or story time for the youngsters?

@hardbackwriter

>Didn't appropriately hide themselves at the back

Say for example my leg was hurting and I needed to stretch it. Would it be appropriate for me to go up and down the centre aisle to do so? A normal person will go to the back. Why then is it OK for a parent to stand up at the front of the church walking up and down with their toddler. Considerate people go to the back so that they don't disrupt the service. People who enjoy being the centre of attention will be where everyone can watch them.

And I never said all children should be banned from church. Only that if you know that you have a child that screams and won't stop, out of consideration for everyone else not to bring them.

Honestly I think it’s a bit rude for a non Christian occasional visitor (who therefore doesn’t understand the importance of church to a believer) to pontificate about whether or not actual members of the church should or should not bring their children to a service. Or how they should allow their children to behave.

I know you didn't say all children should be banned but no child (or an adult, say with a learning disability or dementia) should be. All should be welcome. Even those who for whatever reason are unable to behave appropriately at all times.

And your response is 100% what's wrong with modern parenting.

It’s a tough one op. Like anywhere you do have to try control your children in terms of noise and running around but as a parent you can only physically do so much! It’s actually nice that they are taking their children to mass. I would like to take mine more often but doubt my youngest dc who is 2 would get much from it and would probably be swinging from the pew.

Nope, putting societal pressure on stressed and anxious mums is what's wrong with old school parenting.
Not berating someone who is desperately trying to keep their toddler entertained is whats right. This isn't a 5* restaurant at 9pm on a Friday night. It's a gp practice. Mind your own business and stop being the same kind of entitled as you label parents. "I deserve peace and quiet in every public setting, but you are entitled for not forcing your toddlers into silence!" Haha. Ironic!

Although they're all about recruitment so they probably should try and make it more appealing...

Although they're all about recruitment so they probably should try and make it more appealing...

Making it appealing to the next generation is much more effective than making it appealing to one antisocial non-believer.

I think that would be fine, and potentially less disruptive than going all the way to the back - you have to go back to your seat again afterwards either way?

I realise that you were there for a relative not yourself so probably weren't very engaged in the service - if you're going because you actually want to then it's a bit different. I can honestly say I don't pay much attention to what other people in the congregation are doing in the service - I'm not there to watch them. If someone got up to stretch out their leg I would barely register it, let alone be sat there thinking 'gosh, it's not really worth me coming here to celebrate my faith and worship god in the community of the church if it's not in total reverent silence throughout and if somebody is moving about!'. The most important part for me/in my church is the eucharist, and by definition that's the bit where people aren't sat still in their seats!

I tried out a local church when I recently moved to my area. I had DS with me who was about 17 months at the time and is VERY active. My husband doesn't go to church so I look after him on my own. There was no crèche or baby area for him to go to as they were refurbing it (if I'd known this I wouldn't have gone). I tried as long as I could to keep him still, play with some quiet toys, etc, but all he wanted to do was walk around and walk up and down the aisles, with me trudging behind him. I was at my wits end and then I got some rude comment from an old woman about it. I spent the rest of the service fighting back tears. I wish people could have a bit more empathy sometimes - it's nerve wracking enough as it is going to a new church, without the self-consciousness and embarrassment of having to deal with a hyperactive toddler on your own, and without people rolling their eyes and making comments. I've been a Christian for years, but if this was my first time in church this would've been enough to put me off for life.

Where are all these churches which have areas for the children to go to Sunday school or groups or sections of the church to play? I have never been to one, and I’ve attended services in maybe seven or eight churches. All village churches with small and ageing congregations though, so either no remand for this type of group/classes/area, or maybe that is why families don’t think that the church is for them.

Maybe it's because they're smaller churches.
I've been to a few (not many, christenings, weddings and funerals) that all have these areas z

Yes, absolutely. But when you live in a village, with only other villages nearby, all churches tend to be on the smaller side. So what do parents who both want to go to church do? They have to take their children with them, and run the risk and judgment of others if the children are deemed disruptive, loud or unwelcome. I absolutely get that small churches won’t necessarily have the volunteers needed for Sunday school or groups or craft or whatever though. I just don’t know where that leaves people.

Our church is very welcoming to kids and the vicar has said several times that wandering and a little bit of noise is fine (indeed his grandson is often one of the wanderers!). There’s an area with toys for them to play and they’re usually quiet but not silent. My DD is 5 and mostly stays next to me, although she does like to have a little lie down on an empty pew sometimes when she’s tired!

Personally I love a church that is well loved and makes itself a home for congregants. Noisy toddlers and people with disabilities who sometimes shout out are just as much a part of the church family as anyone else.

Cities, or at least towns/suburbs. I could name five within fifteen minutes of my house. All with crèche, multiple thriving children’s groups, midweek youth groups etc and a decent number of seniors too. Some CoE, some other denominations. But it does take a certain number of people to make it work - for there to be enough families with children for groups to be viable but also enough other adults to volunteer to run children’s and youth work. And often enough staff for there to be multiple services a day, including some so that those doing children’s work during a family service can also attend another service themselves. That said even the little parish church in the nearest village here has a children’s area at the back and a small Sunday school group.

Quite honestly though it was a factor in why we don’t live in a rural village.

@MillenialAvocado out of interest why did you take your toddler to church rather than leave him with your husband? Do you think he gained spiritually by being there? I can only imagine how stressful it must have been for you trying to worship and mind him (and getting judged on top of that).

I had a bit of a smile reading this thread with everyone arguing over how welcoming the church is. The last time I stepped into a church as an adult I was treated to a sermon on the evils of gay people. Organised religion is one of the least welcoming places I can think of!