Kids running around in church

[ThatFraggle]

I'm not religious but sometimes go with someone who is. This week there were three toddlers screaming/crying/babbling through the service.

Their parents let them run up and down the aisle. At one point one mum picked the kid up, but instead of going to the back, just sort of hung around in the middle of the aisle with the kid. As if she wanted us to be like 'awww what an adorable little scamp.' During the service.

I can imagine that for someone spiritual it's especially annoying when trying to pay attention to the sermon or the prayers, reading etc.

Honestly, if you know you've got a screamer, you are not going to be able to bring the kid to church for a couple of years, or alternate with a partner if you have one.

Yes, Jesus loved children, but it doesn't mean little Tarquin should get to scream through the service.

AIBU to be really annoyed about disruptive children in church?

I don't think worship can ever be meaningless. God doesn't mind if it's formal or in formal

Erm but "worship" just means the act of declaring his worth to God. There are millions of ways that people choose to do that.
So if by teaching people to worship "properly" you mean to worship the way you like to see it done then this is a ridiculously exclusive version of Christianity.

One church I attended for a while their version of worship always involved talking loudly in tongues, shouting, starting songs randomly "as the spirit took them" and lots of physical moving around.
It wasn't for me but suited some people very well.
Imagine if somebody insisted that this was the only "proper" way to worship and started trying to insist you did it their way.

A church that isn’t crying is dying, as they say. I choose to take my children out if they get disruptive but it’s very frequently stated that there’s no expectation to do so.

I disagree. Cafe Church and oversimplification and downright incorrectness of how the bible is taught and preached on in the name of bums on seats are not things that I agree with, sorry.

I mean, I'm an atheist but I'd just like to point out, after attending a Christening, that the seating could be comfier and the gift shop was shite, so if you all could just work on that, it'd be much appreciated.

I agree they shouldn't take their children to church. It is hardly a place for children is it? Indoctrination and fear of sexual abuse from the church leaders.

This is a generational thing. I was raised with church on every Sunday (and I got off lightly because my mother was raised with church twice on Sunday) and I can tell you that there were no small children roaming about. We were expected to sit and be quiet. At most a very small child might have a small toy or book. As soon as we were old enough we were packed off to Sunday school. Our parents would have taken us out if we had made a bolt for it and we would have got a very thorough scolding later. They would not have thought we looked cute - they would have been embarrassed that other people were seeing their children being disobedient and badly behaved.

@Eleganz agree to disagree then. I would personally rather see a cafe church full to the brim with people who love God and want to worship and glorify Him than a formal church with a dozen people in worshiping "correctly"

How Christian you are in your attitude to others. Our local Church closed because the click that scowled and tutted enough to put younger people off going, either died off, were in to poor health, or went into care homes. My GC were baptised in that Church and you'd think that they'd shit in the font and slapped the reverend, the way they were treated.

I have not been a Church goer for years. However back in the day our church had a family section at the back which was partioned off by glass screens. Here you could hear the sermon,but the main congregation could not hear you. You could take crying babies or fidgety children to that area and no one else would get disturbed. This was an RC Church where children were expected to attend, there was no separate 'Sunday School '. Personally though I no longer attend, I believe it is important to welcome families of all ages.

Who decides what's correct, @Eleganz ?

The early church wouldn't recognise what we do now. I think we're at risk of killing it by prioritising church above congregations.

I've preached with my DC holding onto my legs. That's how I was able to contribute. If I'd had to wait until my DC were appropriate before coming I'd never have been a church leader.

We used to have a row of older ladies that chatted all through the service, completely unaware that their quiet murmurs were audible to everyone as they are hard of hearing.

We miss them now, despite it being easier to concentrate.

I disagree. Cafe Church and oversimplification and downright incorrectness of how the bible is taught and preached on in the name of bums on seats are not things that I agree with, sorry.

Actually @Eleganz you're not sorry though.
This brand of "only my way is the right way" Christianity has ruined a few C of E churches that I've known recently (I have several friends who are clergy) making the churches inaccessible to all but a select few who feel they are the only ones who get things right.
I do think leaders have a delicate balancing act trying to ensure that all different types of people can get their needs met in church but as Christians we all have a responsibility to be a little bit flexible and try to meet people who worship differently to us half-way.

YABU and Victorian.

Best church I ever went to was one that practiced silent mediation and the vicar would introduce it by saying ‘let’s enjoy some silence with children’ - because it would be completely silent except the occasional clatter of children playing with a toy or baby babbling. Acknowledging the background noise made it easier to practice maintaining focus.

That’s real life. There’s no point practicing nurturing your spiritual aspect in a perfect box and then struggling to maintain your focus when you go back to the real world on a Monday morning. Why not practice in a realistic setting and then take that practice out to the real world with you?

My church has a little children’s area which makes it easier.

People tell me they don’t mind if she has a tantrum but I know they would really. I take her out if that happens.

If you are worshipping in most Church of England churches I would argue that children being disruptive and running about during Parish Communion is not appropriate behaviour. It really is that simple. There are of course many different traditions of worship, bit that doesn't mean it is a free for all wherever you go.

The problem with your line of thinking is that there is no longer and collective agreement about what worship should mean and in an attempt to be inclusive we have just become individualistic.

I don't know, but what's that got to do with it?

Better for a child to be calm and distracted than restrained and stressed waiting at the doctors surgery.

Church- reality calling 🤣ok then.

Anyway, I imagine churches are keen to be open to anyone, as it should be

There is the problem that families will stop attending. My DD wanted to go to church. We went to 5 in the local area not a child in one of them. Be careful what you wish for OP.

In the church I grew up in us the youth group called the old people the ‘tut tuts’ 😂

🤣

There is flexibility and there is destroying the traditions of our church to get people through the door by pretending it isn't actually church but some form of informal social gathering.

I really despair that one can't even express the desire that children should be appropriately behaved during a parish communion without being labelled as a blocker to progress and an elitist. That attitude is not saving the church I'm afraid.

I’ve had both my kids in church since birth. I took them out if they were very noisy during the sermon, and they’ve gradually become old enough for crèche, Sunday school etc. But it was a family service (there are other more traditional services for more of the quiet contemplation type worship) and bluntly my children were as much a part of the church family as everyone else. In a family there are always irritations (personally I find a couple of the adults who insist on whooping and yelling “Jesus” at intervals much more irritating than a child or two) but you just bear with each other. Sometimes it’s a child crying, sometimes it’s an adult with dementia murmuring through the service, sometimes it’s someone’s phone going off. You just get on with it - silent meditation, contemplation etc can be done at home, or in specific services.

I’d be horrified at the suggestion I shouldn’t have gone to church for a few years or I should have left my children behind - church is not optional in my faith and that’s just not what church is. It’d be like suggesting I don’t take the kids to Sunday lunch with my family until they could behave. It’s an occasion where as far as I’m concerned all are welcome, bar the deliberately there to be disruptive. It’s not a choreographed experience for visitors to watch though.

This ^

A church I go to is dog-friendly. The owners have a couple of pews at the back reserved for them.

https://www.aswa.org.uk/our-work/animal-friendly/

There are lots of styles of service that suit different kinds of people.
Parish main services need to accommodate everyone at them, including children.

I go to evensong occasionally for the kind of meditative service that a formal communion used to be.

I'm too busy being delighted about the range of ages who come to our really small church, to complain about any one of them.