Kids running around in church

[ThatFraggle]

I'm not religious but sometimes go with someone who is. This week there were three toddlers screaming/crying/babbling through the service.

Their parents let them run up and down the aisle. At one point one mum picked the kid up, but instead of going to the back, just sort of hung around in the middle of the aisle with the kid. As if she wanted us to be like 'awww what an adorable little scamp.' During the service.

I can imagine that for someone spiritual it's especially annoying when trying to pay attention to the sermon or the prayers, reading etc.

Honestly, if you know you've got a screamer, you are not going to be able to bring the kid to church for a couple of years, or alternate with a partner if you have one.

Yes, Jesus loved children, but it doesn't mean little Tarquin should get to scream through the service.

AIBU to be really annoyed about disruptive children in church?

@Eleganz but you can still take communion with children making noise. It doesn't mean you have to stop doing traditional things it just means that those traditional things will be punctuated by crying children or little feet running around. We only take communion once a month in our church, it doesn't make us any less Christian

Was it a "messy church"? A service where its very relaxed and young children can cry or play if they need to. The 2nd service would be more traditional. I dont go to church but I have noticed these services advertised outside churches. Less stressful for everyone I guess.

I would think it would be anti Christian not to allow children in church. I think. The last time I was in a a church the priest gave a lovely speech about how evil Muslims were. In mosques childrens just.. do whatever, but culturally it’s more ‘it takes a village’ approach to raising kids. I’d imagine it’s the same in temples.

Of course it would be anti Christian to exclude children! Are you going to also exclude adults with learning disabilities or people with dementia? No decent preacher would preach a sermon on how evil Muslims are. Christianity is about love and acceptance, even if we don't agree with the other persons choices. And for the record I do not think Muslims are evil, nor does anyone I know, Christian or otherwise

I accept that with young children there will always be a certain amount of hubbub but when it actually gets to the point of disturbing the act of worship (for example interrupting the eucharistic prayer on multiple occasions) then it is not acceptable behaviour.

The Church of England makes the following statement for all publicly that "the Eucharist is at the heart of Christian worship". I believe that means that people should be able to receive communion every week in their parish church wherever possible (and therefore it should be offered on multiple occasions each week). I'm very sorry if this offends, but I'm afraid I don't think once a month cuts it for me. I don't doubt you are a commited Christian, but can you say that Eucharist is at the heart of your worship of it is just once a month?

The only 8 year olds I know who are running around during a service either have additional needs or their parents are struggling already. I have no judgement for these parents or children. I would try and welcome them and support them in whatever way I could.

Some have family services where children are allowed to wander, they’re very inclusive nowadays, but if I had a screamer or loud child I would take them out. Our church has 5 age range kids clubs to go to from baby to 16, or they have a play area at the back with colouring in etc.

Messy Church is an entirely different format of worship that includes fun activities (like crafts and music making), food and a shorter act of worship that includes child-friendly worship songs and appropriate activities/talks about scripture/important parts of church life/the life Jesus.

I should add that messy church usually lasts a couple of hours with the majority of that time being devoted to the fun activities and food.

If you're not a regular church goer you're not entitled to complain.
When my children were young I felt welcomed by the exact thing that annoys you.

@Eleganz that might be true for CofE (which I am not) but there is nothing in scripture about how often we need to take communion. When we do it it's special, we involve the children in the prayers and explanation of why it's important to us. It's not something we do as routine

Yet it is those of us who are saying that parents should manage their children's behaviour that are being accused of being exclusionary.

Part of the mission of the church is to reach out to the unchurched and offer them welcome. I'm not sure "if you aren't a regular shut your pie hole" is quite living up to that. Church should be welcoming to all, disruptive behaviour from children is no better than being totally unwelcoming to families. Many new worshippers come to church in the middle to late age as well after all.

Tbf I'd be screaming and running around too if I were being forcibly indoctrined for hours every Sunday.

I'm so sorry, I completely misread your post when I replied

That's fine, if your are of another denomination then you do you.

Screaming children in my local church seems to be the norm. No one bothers and all seem to accept it. One of my reasons for limiting my attendance at the local church.

Is there more than the one on a Sunday? If there is more than one that may be the family mass. It might look on the surface as though it’s as formal as normal, but it may be designated as family mass so parents don’t have to worry too much about noise or active toddlers.

Our mid morning can be like this but the last person who complained to the priest didn’t get very far. He was really quite cross at the complaint.

Our church welcome young babies. Being a young parent can be incredibly isolating and I've found it a big help to be able to go to services and be included in a multi generational community. Nice for older folk to interact with kiddies.

Jesus knew darn well he'd be handing them back to their mums within the hour.

In my local church, we have family services twice a month that children are regularly welcomed to, plus messy church once a month where children are told a story from the Bible and get to do craft activities relating to the story. Its for 3 hours and there is also lunch included by volunteers.

We also have more traditional services for those who prefer a more formal service so everyone has a choice. My dd loves church and has a variety of aunties, uncles, nanas, bampies etc who love to watch her while I have communion or have a chat with the congregation.

Instead of traditional communion for the children, there is always a packet of biscuits, sweets and some toys to play with again provided by volunteers and biscuits are used in communion for children.

The family services can be noisy but it's fun and people do take criers out to calm down then come back in.

We are a good community and look out for each other, depending on your church/priest etc.

Well that’s what I thought, but that’s what happened. It was in Scotland if that makes a difference? Unfortunate he had us there since it was my cousins christening and we had spent ages trying to work out how to be polite in church.
But the priest was very good to my grandmother and did her service when she died, so I just stayed at the back so he didn’t see me. I did think it was odd that he prayed that the darkness of Islam would dim, but having British family members you are taught to sweep things under the rug due to the all importance of politeness. I still ask if it’s ok if I can go to funerals though. You don’t want to encroach on people’s sacred place.

But respectfully, yea a lot of.. well, the attitude isn’t unusual. It’s something you learn to live with.

I think there are tensions in what people want from the church (and from religion) so that it's impossible to have it all in one service.

Contemplation
Silence
COmmunion
Worship
Teaching
Support
Ethical guidance
Formation
Spiritual framework
Community
Music
Quiet
Ecstasy
Praise
Stability
Boundaries
A new start

I also think parents get mixed messages about what to do and how to handle their kids: it's easy to judge but the person you see in the aisle may have been told previously by another parishioner - don't remove ds/dd, it's lovely seeing them run around and it's what Jesus (read I) want. It's tough for parents (especially if they have thin skins and have been raised to be people pleasers) to navigate this.

No simple solutions. Churches that have the manpower to offer different types of service often do this to manage the problem. But I'm not sure it is really the solution. It feels like something gets missed there.

That’s awful pertinentowl. I hope that isn’t common. Our parish priest tries to forge links between us and the local mosque where he can.

I say "manpower" without thinking and want to correct myself - personal power would be a better term.

We have communion twice a month, once as a whole church family together throughout the service, once with a Sunday school, but the DC come back in for communion. It wouldn't feel right to exclude children from communion.

I can't see that communion needs silence though.

When churches are big enough to run several services, then it's easy to designate some traditional and quiet, and others more relaxed.

As you say though, priests have more than one church and congregations are small. We didn't have enough take up to sustain our quiet communions. We just about make a decent congregation with everyone in. We have to design our services to fit who is there.

If the OP had been a regular complaining that a visitor was noisy then she'd have a point. If the congregation has a more relaxed approach she can't really complain.

Congregations and services evolve to meet the needs of the members, and that's more important than tradition, imo.
Tradition as we know it is relatively new- just a few hundred years. The older churches didn't have pews. Hymns were set to traditional tunes to make theology easier to learn. At one point services were in Latin- that only started to change 400 years ago.
I just don't see the last 200 years as the peak of worship, that has to be preserved against evolution.