Kids running around in church

[ThatFraggle]

I'm not religious but sometimes go with someone who is. This week there were three toddlers screaming/crying/babbling through the service.

Their parents let them run up and down the aisle. At one point one mum picked the kid up, but instead of going to the back, just sort of hung around in the middle of the aisle with the kid. As if she wanted us to be like 'awww what an adorable little scamp.' During the service.

I can imagine that for someone spiritual it's especially annoying when trying to pay attention to the sermon or the prayers, reading etc.

Honestly, if you know you've got a screamer, you are not going to be able to bring the kid to church for a couple of years, or alternate with a partner if you have one.

Yes, Jesus loved children, but it doesn't mean little Tarquin should get to scream through the service.

AIBU to be really annoyed about disruptive children in church?

I think you just chose the wrong church.

I know many people who’ve been kicked out of families and/ostracised from their religion due to being gay. It’s not just that one church!

@fitzwilliamdarcy there are lots of very inclusive churches around too, though.

Absolutely no need for it. I went to church every week from being a baby as did my siblings and we weren't allowed to mess around, certainly not run about.
Quite a lot of children at the church but none of them did this. Mind you this was in the 80s when parents weren't afraid to control their children.
I'm not religious anymore but if I was I'd take my child outside or leave them at home with my parents.

Churches like to start the programming young though. Plus they often hold family friendly services a bit after a more formal service

Or libraries! In the library the other day there was one helluva racket coming from the children's library, including some yelling. I was at the desk and the librarian just rolled her eyes! Times have changed.

Why won't the omnipotent controller of the universe do something about it?

If there is a God, He wouldn't work that way, or nobody would have cancer or die young or hurt others.

I think you are being ridiculous! Why would you even need to comment if you're not religious.
Our vicar encourages all of the children to get involved in various parts of the service and we have colouring in for them to do and toys for them to play with. Our Nephew was just a couple of months old when we got married and whilst he was actually quiet throughout the whole service, our vicar reassured his Mum that it wouldn't be a problem at all if he'd felt the need to join in.

I'm sorry that this was your experience of church. There are lots of churches which are inclusive and welcoming to all.

I'm obviously completely missing the point here, but I thought this was a thread about lousy parenting. I would'nt have been able to sit down for a week if I'd have run amok in a church as a kid. Likewise, if my child caused a disturbance and started screaming (which thankfully he very rarely did), I'd just scoop him up and take him outside to kick off until he calmed down. This applies to any setting. Being a parent is often hard, but surely this is one of the things that is actually quite straightforward to deal with.

We then move onto a discussion that appears to equate the behaviour of an induldged toddler whose parent has failed to help them understand expected behaviour in public and take them to have their screaming fit somewhere more appropriate, to a person with dementia or profound disabilities . . .then I was lost.

I hate any situation like that and especially hate it when the parent looks at you like that!!!

My church is in outer London. Our first service is traditional and very few if any families attend, it is mostly older people. A few of the older ones stay for both services. The second service is a family service and there are probably about 15 families who attend regularly. There are three different Sunday school groups for various ages and usually about 30 children attend across the three groups.

LeevMarie
I think OP would like it to be about lazy parenting, but really it's that she (as a non churchgoer) has decided what a communion service should be like, and is therefore annoyed and moaning about the behaviour of the children in a congregation that she isn't actually part of.

Not all services, including communion services, have the expectations of sit down shut up, children seen and not heard. That's probably why people are sharing the different traditions and expectations of their places of worship.

I've known relatives talk about all the squarking and screaming and running around in a service and then I've attended with them and they mean children are being children in a service that is welcome to all ages. There wasn't anything unreasonable about what I saw, unless you were thinking back to the days where children were seen and not heard.

We then move onto a discussion that appears to equate the behaviour of an induldged toddler whose parent has failed to help them understand expected behaviour in public and take them to have their screaming fit somewhere more appropriate, to a person with dementia or profound disabilities . . .then I was lost.

That’s every MN thread about kids running around though…

And not being able to sit down for a week, is something your proud that your parents would've inflicted on you?

Christians were they?

I don't think I would if it was like that every week! 😵‍💫 Probably all other churches I've been to have been really accommodating with children so I assumed this one would be the same. To be fair, it might've been - they did have a kids section but was being refurbed on that week, and the couple I was sitting behind couldn't have been lovelier about the situation. DS loves the church we go to now, and I think any social activities are obviously going to help his development. There's a crèche that runs while the service goes on so he gets to play and interact with children his own age. Some of them will be in his year at school which could be a really nice thing for him. There's also lots of kids activities going on so that's good for him as well. There's a really lovely sense of community at our church as well which I never had when I was growing up. At the risk of sounding a bit mad, I do think children are able to perceive a lot more than we assume, including spirituality, though obviously not in the same way adults would. Saying all that, it'll be up to him to decide if he wants to continue going to church when he's older, I'd never force the issue.

Was back again today.

To answer some of the previous questions:

Yes there is a Sunday school, they go after the second first hymn BUT it seems to be for children who go to reception/school. The babies & toddlers remained in the main service.

This is the 9.30 service. At 11.30 there is another 'All ages mass'.

Today the inevitable happened. A toddler was running up and down the aisle. Pulled down a flower display and it came crashing down. I don't know what that green stuff is called that holds the flowers in place, but it went everywhere. I don't think he was hurt, but he screamed bloody murder and his mother took him out.

Toddler 2: It is a style of church sort of like a small cathedral. At the front there is a small sort of mini chapel to the side of the main altar. You can see it from the front, and it is behind the person giving the sermon.

Toddler 2 began grizzling, so his mum walked up and down with him. Instead of doing this at the back, she went to the front bit, so we could all watch her as we tried to listen to the sermon.

Toddler 3, ran up the carpeted side aisle. Made a game of crushing her biscuits into the carpet. No one stopped her.

In my opinion all three of these examples are parenting fails.

Looking forward to being told I'm a heathen who should shut up and not have an opinion.

Yes there is a Sunday school, they go after the second first hymn BUT it seems to be for children who go to reception/school. The babies & toddlers remained in the main service.

This is the 9.30 service. At 11.30 there is another 'All ages mass'.
Sounds like they're expecting families at both services then given they have a Sunday school at the 9.30 one as well. If they weren't expecting younger children at the 9.30 then they wouldn't put a Sunday school on. 🤷‍♀️

Toddler 1 - accident, not ideal, thankfully nobody was badly hurt.

Toddler 2 - you're being a bit precious by moaning about where a parent walks her child. It doesn't sound like a cathedral type building, just a typical older church, and you'd be able to hear anywhere if a little one is grizzling.

If you think a mother is focusing on making sure you all look at her during the sermon, you're reaching a bit.

Toddler 3 - parenting fail, they shouldn't be crumbling a biscuit like that, or if they started to the parent should be close enough to swoop in and stop it continuing.

Ok, you've definitely got some parenting fails there.... pulling down the flower display is obviously very bad, I've always kept mine WELL away from those. They are usually right at the front so easy to avoid except when going up for communion.

BUT they obviously welcome children if they have a sunday school set up for both services. If they choose that this is just for 5+ and they WANT younger ones to stay in church (presumably so that parents can still participate in the service) then you will get noise. That's presumably a decision made by the priest and PCC.

We don't have a Sunday school. It used to run fortnightly (coinciding with the more formal church services, so they would be more peaceful) but it stopped running after covid. That's true of many rural churches. One of my 3 was noisy today - possibly earache, I'm not quite sure. I kept him as quiet as I could at the back but he was wimpering/crying. His twin brother took the opportunity of my distraction to upend the crayons. Do I think anyone in the congregation wished we weren't there. You bet. I could name her. But most were very sympathetic and understanding as a toddler suddenly getting a bit poorly is PART OF LIFE. And church is part of life. If people feel excluded when unpredictable things happen, they won't come back. In 20 years, you don't have a congregation left.

Children are part of the church family. Yes, good behaviour should be encouraged. But "seen and not heard" is unrealistic with under 4s. I've not come across a single priest that says that parents should miss church until their children are 5. The whole point of church is that ALL are welcome.

I think the flower display and the biscuits are clearly not ok, and in both cases the parents should have intervened - though with the first they may just not have realised and perhaps they got a shock and will be quicker off the mark next time. For the second - she was trying to keep the child quiet while still being able to hear the sermon herself. I still don't understand why you think that doing anything other than hiding in shame if walking up and down with a toddler is attention-seeking, and I do think this is a weird hang-up of yours. But yes, I agree that the behaviour you have witnessed is worse than I allow from my own children. I think they should be a bit more mindful. But I still don't really think it's any of your business and if anything is going to change their behaviour it's not going to be glares.

I've only ever been to one church that did have a creche for children below school age, everywhere I've ever worshipped the babies and toddlers stay in. And that means you accept some noise. In general I think that going to church weekly is one of the reasons that I get frequently complimented on my children's behaviour but that wasn't achieved the first time they went!

Ok OP, all these things are annoying. And whether it happens in church or anywhere, instances of poor parenting are irritating. But I’m still not sure what your point is - is it that the parents should parent better or ship out? Or is it that the church should DO something? If the latter, I still haven’t seen what action you believe should be taken 🤷🏼‍♀️

There's definitely a risk here that by operating under the guise of being 'family friendly', therefore no basic standards of behaviour are required, this church is going to alienate other people.

I wouldn't want my 4 year old to be somewhere like this, witnessing this behaviour. Depending on the phase of the moon, he'd either very vocally express his disapproval, or look at me with the same disdain that he did a few weeks ago when he wanted to join in with the troupe of kids running around the airport departure lounge and I told him he couldn't.

Do what my auntie used to do. Point up at Jesus on the cross and tell naughty children that he was the last little boy to be naughty in church, and look what happened to him.

On reflection, I'm not sure my auntie liked children, or Christianity, very much!

What's my point? I'm just having a bit of a moan.

And it is eye-opening to see that some people believe that it is persecution to expect someone not to walk around in the front where someone is giving a sermon, rather than at the back, still in the same room, but out of everyone's eyeline.