Kids running around in church

[ThatFraggle]

I'm not religious but sometimes go with someone who is. This week there were three toddlers screaming/crying/babbling through the service.

Their parents let them run up and down the aisle. At one point one mum picked the kid up, but instead of going to the back, just sort of hung around in the middle of the aisle with the kid. As if she wanted us to be like 'awww what an adorable little scamp.' During the service.

I can imagine that for someone spiritual it's especially annoying when trying to pay attention to the sermon or the prayers, reading etc.

Honestly, if you know you've got a screamer, you are not going to be able to bring the kid to church for a couple of years, or alternate with a partner if you have one.

Yes, Jesus loved children, but it doesn't mean little Tarquin should get to scream through the service.

AIBU to be really annoyed about disruptive children in church?

In my church it is really easy about who gets to decide - the incumbent, the church wardens and PCC under the guidance of the bishops and general synod. Every organised religion has some form of structure for defining what form worship should take.

I am not saying children should be excluded from church I am saying that parents should understand that noisy, highly disruptive behaviour is not appropriate for many types of service and should be able to parent effectively to manage this. Are you really saying that your children were shouting, screaming and running around while you were preaching? Do you think your messages got through to your congregation?

I suppose they want to encourage young people to go to church so banning young children would be counterintuitive. What would happen otherwise when the elderly attendees die off? Most middle-aged people and young adults/teens aren’t bothered about church, they think it’s a load of old nonsense. So they probably think it’s great to see the young in attendance.

@Eleganz church is the people, not the building. Jesus welcomed prostitutes, tax collectors, social outcasts, basically everyone who the other religious leaders deemed "unacceptable" you really think he's going to turn his nose up at some noisy children? He asks us to be childlike.

@Eleganz out of genuine interest, what is the value of 'the traditions of our church'?

It would be helpful to understand your concerns if I knew what you are worrying about. There's obviously something there you appreciate that I am missing.

I work in the church with people from all sorts of traditions, and really appreciate learning from them. I've got more tolerant with age, recognised my old intolerance, and started to enjoy a wider range of churchmanship.

You'd not have caught me dead at evensong ten years ago.

Driving a relative whose usual lift was unavailable... It was there in the OP that I was accompanying someone. I didn't just wander in to tut at unruly children.

I would rather see a church that actually has an identity drawn from its significant history rather than one trying to be just yet another modern evangelical American style church to be honest, but doing it badly with lots of expensive and unsuitable real estate. It seems that you are sadly someone else who thinks that traditional worship cannot fill churches and that filling churches is all that matters in the first place.

The fastest growing service in terms of attendance in the CofE? Evensong, not really cafe Church that...

This

"Are you really saying that your children were shouting, screaming and running around while you were preaching? Do you think your messages got through to your congregation?"

If you preach well and flexibly, you make sure your Message gets through.
They are still there, as am I. My DC were holding my legs so they weren't crying in the pew trying to get to me. They were in church every week. I've been leading and preaching for about 20 years now, alongside being a foster carer and parent. I'm part of the PCC and leadership team that makes the decisions. We discuss how to meet the needs of everyone there whether that's physical comfort, teaching or prayer support.

Would you exclude an adult with verbal tics? Or a disabled person who was unable to stay silent?

I can't imagine preferring someone left until they learn to behave, rather than stayed while they learn to behave.

I read your op, I read where you said you aren't religious and then went on to give your opinion on children in a place that you have no connection to. Next time maybe just sit in the car park and brush up on the Bible

@Eleganz I absolutely don't think traditional worship can't fill churches. Of course it can and it does. We have an Anglican Church in our town that has a huge amount of people attending. But traditional worship isn't the only way to worship and if we as a church people say that you're only welcome in church if you are able and want to worship in a traditional way then we aren't going to appeal to an enormous amount of people.

There's nothing wrong with evangelical churches. Jesus calls us to be evangelists. Our church is very untraditional and we welcome everyone. We have former drug addicts, single parents, adults with learning disabilities, families, single men and women, teenagers who come on their own, and anyone else you can think of. We don't look like a traditional church but that doesn't mean we any less value than the Anglican Church down the road

I was raised Catholic and went to a strict Catholic school. I’m now a non-Church goer because if the priest isn’t righteous enough, people like you are.

Have you noticed how congregations are decreasing (plummeting) these days? There will be good and bad parents everywhere, being in church makes little difference.

Among the many hypocrisies, one that sticks is “go in peace to live and serve the Lord” said at the end of mass. Problem is some dickheads seem to think rocking up for an hours’ service every now and again, even every week, yet proceeding to be massively judgemental dicks the rest of the time is ok.

Maybe you should reflect on that.

@pickledandpuzzled

How are they 'learning to behave' if they are never stopped from running around or naver taken out while screaming?

I think that the Lord's request for us to seek the modesty of a child-like faith is really being stretched to accommodate badly behaved children and poor parenting in church really. I'll just have to disagree with your interpretation of scripture on that point.

It seems that you are really straw-manning hard in trying to paint me out as some kind of unwelcoming curmudgeon who is a poor Christian as a result. I can guarantee you that my church has more children and young people regularly worshipping in it that most CofE parishes and as a direct result of the work that I am involved in in ministry too. We welcome all into our church, but we accept our identity and the value of our way of worshipping.

@Eleganz I apologise if I come across like that. I'm just trying to point out that we're all different and in my opinion there's no correct way to worship. We find the church and the congregation that suit us where we are. It won't suit everyone and that's ok

I am Catholic, and help out as a steward at services. We are associated with a primary school, and get lots of families. Nobody minds if the children make some noise. We also have an area at the back ..where we as stewards stand. There are doors with glass at the top, and a speaker.. so people can come here with toddlers who might want to wander about.

@TruthsAndALie

I don't believe any of it. My question was about how other people view behaviour that I consider disruptive.

And to the other pp who said I should read the bible. Indeed I have. Probably more than most Christians. Reading the Bible is the best way to produce an atheist.

My church has a 0930 service that is quiet and an 1100 service for families which definitely helps in this situation.

The value of the traditions of our church is that they can provide structure and form that provides space away from the noise and worldliness of our everyday lives to explore and grow our faith in quietness, reflection, penitence, song and ritual led by trained clergy who can provide the context for scripture and enhance our understanding of it and placing the Eucharist at the heart of our faith.

My concern is that we seem to be seeking to remove these traditional forms of worship to replace them with informal forms of worship that seem designed for comfort and ease of the worshipper often led by a layperson with limited theological training and often with no place for the Eucharist. This seems at odds with what the CofE claims it is.

Erica, is that you?

Completely depends on the type of service. My church is incredibly family friendly. At the begining of the Sunday service children will be sat at tables with colouring and you may very well hear children. My youngest son is autistic and often walks around a pillar near the back. There is a children's worship song and a short sermon aimed towards all. The children then go off for their Sunday groups and there is a crèche for under 4s so adult worship then begins. If the church suddenly became very formal with the expectation for children to sit silently, the church would then lose half the congregation.

I'd rather be at church with a few noisy children than a non-believer sitting there turning their nose up in judgement against others. Christian values clearly aren't rubbing off on you.

And "Little Tarquin"? Really?

Perhaps this attitude is why the church is dying out? Alienating all the young families so churches are only attended by a dwindling elderly congregation
If kids are acting up in church it's likely cos they are BORED, so perhaps services need to be more accessible and interesting for children?

All the churches I have been to have been pretty inclusive of families and enjoy having children in the services. If you don't do this as a church you find your church dies off as families will not want to attend. They usually also offer some sort of crèche though but maybe if it's small they don't have enough volunteers or the child doesn't settle. I think it's a price you have to pay if you want a thriving church to be honest.

I'll be honest, poor behaviour from children is something I don't think has any place in any church service. I sometimes help run our messy church services on Saturdays and we don't accept children running amok there either, it isn't safe or respectful. Of course that doesn't mean they can't have fun, enjoy the activities, food and fellowship aimed at them and of course noise levels and behaviour are different in messy church compared to parish eucharist. We run a real range of services from messy church to taizé in our church and it is about agreeing and knowing what each of those types of worship entail.

I'm not at all religious, so never go to church. I was shamed at Christmas by a friend who takes his daughter ( 10) to the Carol service on Christmas eve at his local church. Said everybody should take their kids on Christmas eve. I said no way I was taking a 5 month old at the time, past his bedtime to church and getting angry looks if he was crying. Apparently that's no excuse as there were babies there.