Kids running around in church

[ThatFraggle]

I'm not religious but sometimes go with someone who is. This week there were three toddlers screaming/crying/babbling through the service.

Their parents let them run up and down the aisle. At one point one mum picked the kid up, but instead of going to the back, just sort of hung around in the middle of the aisle with the kid. As if she wanted us to be like 'awww what an adorable little scamp.' During the service.

I can imagine that for someone spiritual it's especially annoying when trying to pay attention to the sermon or the prayers, reading etc.

Honestly, if you know you've got a screamer, you are not going to be able to bring the kid to church for a couple of years, or alternate with a partner if you have one.

Yes, Jesus loved children, but it doesn't mean little Tarquin should get to scream through the service.

AIBU to be really annoyed about disruptive children in church?

Churches are for the community. Supermarkets are not, really.

Because church isn't a supermarket? People could reasonably be expected to shop when they have childcare or keep their children in the trolley seat. Church should be a second home. My church family is my family and they love me and my kids, we have a relationship. I don't have a relationship with random people in Tesco

I don't understand why, as a non religious person, you'd visit a church and then come on Mumsnet to bitch that the church has chosen a level of formality/informality that suits it's congregation.

Some churches have early services and late services, some have all age worship, some have formal liturgical services, some are more formal and contemplative in their style, some have a mix of services on a Sunday and different people attend different ones.

I'm not an expert on churches but complaining about children in what seems to be an informal all age service seems as silly complaining that high Latin mass was too serious, contemplative and old fashioned.

It wasn't an informal service. It was an Anglican mass.

Churches are no more playgrounds than supermarkets.

@Eleganz nobody's suggesting that they're playgrounds, but people of all ages are welcome in church and involved in Church activities. To do that, you have to be tolerant of people who are still learning about the world.

Once on holiday in Italy with ILs, they wanted to go to mass on Sunday so we all went. A little old lady had a dog with her and asked if we would hold his lead while she went up for communion, which we did.

Anglican churches I have attended have had a creche/Sunday school until communion. The children of today are the congregations of tomorrow. Providing the parents are trying to set boundaries I think it's fine. It's when they look on and do nothing that it isn't. The Reverend usually knows which children/parents may be a bit vulnerable and I've played with many such over many years.

The only thing I object to is being expected to be a Sunbeam as the dc come in from Sunday School. That should be confined to dedicated family services, not part of the service with a sung Eucharist.

So we should just let children tear about the place making as much noise as they like in the middle of communion and the parents can just get a free pass?

Of course not.

You are no less responsible for the behaviour of your child in church as elsewhere. There is an acceptable level of noise and movement from children (depending on their age) and beyond that parents need to parent and manage behaviour.

I am really struggling with this idea that one must allow any sort of behaviour from young children in church or you are somehow excluding families and being bad Christians. It seems utterly bonkers to me. Just parent your children appropriately and recognise that the church being for all is just as applicable to the other worshippers as it is to you and try and respect that.

YABU.
You're not religious. If you were and wanted to attend a quiet Anglican Mass you would be able to find somewhere with a service that suits. There are so many different types of service. The church you went to has decided what works for them. Perhaps it was a family service today.
I think if a child is screaming because they are upset the parents should take them out or to the back until they are calmer. Running around screaming and shouting is a bit much too - but toddling up and down aisles, looking at things, some chatter, baby babbling etc is absolutely fine in a church service.

Did your relative complain about the disruption too or was it just you?

@Eleganz but no one is suggesting that we let kids run around and scream but the reality is that kids make noise and it's not always as a result of bad behaviour. We can't expect kids to sit still and silent for a church service

Supermarkets aren't for the community?

So when children do run around and scream in church, what do you think is an appropriate response by the parents?

Firstly it's not really safe to be running around in supermarkets and cafes. Secondly church should be a place of joy for all, children included! My children love going to church, it is a joyful occasion for us.
Most people find joy in watching the little ones enjoy themselves and toddle about.

I don't think you quite understand the importance of the church as a family when you suggest leaving little ones at home.

So there's a 'right' way and a 'wrong' way to worship god is there? And of course your way is the 'right' way. Churches are dying, religious following and belief is at an all time low and attitudes like yours are what caused that. Children need guidance and welcoming into the church family, not scorn and judgement from you. Very unchristian of you.

It depends, we have quite a few children with additional needs in our church community (because we are a welcoming church!) These children often find it harder to sit still quietly throughout the service. Toddlers might toddle about. If children are being too loud then parents usually shush them gently or try and distract them. But a bit of noise or running about is mostly ignored.

YABVVVVU.

Children are part of the church. It’s like a family. We don’t exclude babies and toddlers from family life and we ought not to exclude them from the church family. Church is not for your individual meditative quiet with Christ- you can do that at home. It’s for coming together to be the body of Christ together, old and young, loud and quiet.

So there's a 'right' way and a 'wrong' way to worship god is there?

Well, yes. God himself has been very clear about that. But it’s nothing to do with how quiet or loud you are.

Maybe Tarquin's mum is a self-described "crunchy mum"...

@ThatFraggle if I'm being honest, the kids who scream occasionally and get out of hand either have additional needs or their parents are also struggling with their behaviour. In both cases judgement does no good and what is more useful is having a loving church family who offer help and support to struggling families. In our church this might look like someone finding toys to distract the child or offering them a snack. To you a screaming child might be a nuisance on a Sunday morning but to parents of a child with additional needs, they have to deal with it 24/7. A bit of compassion never hurt anyone

@Eleganz of course not - but its reasonable to expect some noise and some movement

With little ones there's a risk that your attempt to quieten them down just makes it worse. I think it's fairly clear that regular members find ways of accommodating each other's needs, whatever they are.

A little boy I remember fondly didn't really do whispering. His mum would whisper to him asking him to sh, settle down, colour this/play with that, and he'd pipe up with 'why?' And 'I don't want to' in his little foghorn voice. My friend's son had a hilarious 'tiptoe' that he used to do when he needed to move quietly. He still stamped like a herd of elephants, but he was on very slow tiptoes as he did it, with a wide eyed concentration expression on his face.

It's almost always easier with girls, but there was one tot from an African country who was like a little hurricane. So fast, and so curious. She took a fair bit of herding.

This is bringing back fond memories of children who've grown up in my church. We've got some on the tech desks and some in the worship groups now.

My older, adult, girls only really go at Christmas these days, but people are always so thrilled to see them and hear what they are up to.

I would agree with small children but to allow your 8/9 year olds to run around, to go up to the altar and play there is unacceptable, at that age they should be able to remain seated for most of the service.

So I should believe my way of worshipping is wrong then? Of course others do things differently but that does not make my opinion invalid or then correct.

Why is it unchristian of me to encourage all to worship according to the customs and traditions of my faith? Children indeed need welcoming in and guidance, allowing them to run around disrupting services is not my idea of providing that.

Or should I just accept that fundamental parts of my faith, like the centrality of the Eucharist are actually just optional in order to be a good Christian and I should just allow it to be sidelined to get bums on seats? Popularity is obviously more important I guess.

Blaming me for the demise of a faith mired in sexual abuse scandals, misogyny and homophobia because I think parents should parent their children and respect the act of worship and other worshippers is a bit of a reach really. It seems de rigour to accuse those you disagree with of being "unchristian" these days.

Never said it wasn't, but my response was to someone actually saying it was okay for children "to run wild" in church because "church is for the community" - like a park or playground I surmise.