AIBU to be bothered that DH expects me to pay him back?

[Tuatara22]

I recently started a new job after being out of work for some time and I haven't yet received my first paycheck. DH has always been funny about money, for lack of a better word. We have completely separate finances (his preference) and he pays some bills and I pay others, and for some bills I transfer my portion to him and he pays it from his account. He has a spreadsheet that calculates the bills and how we split them, and I pay about a third of everything, since he earns 3x what I earn. Personally I find this strict and precise division of finances odd and pointless, but he gets his back up whenever I raise the matter, so I've let it be for the most part. He grew up working class and his parents struggled at times, and I think that's lead to him having some anxiety around money and seems to always feel a bit insecure about finances even though he earns a good salary. Drives an old car, never buys clothes for himself, purchases require long deliberation etc. I grew up financially comfortable and don't have the same anxiety about money. We don't have kids.

He loaned me some money this month (a few hundred) to buy new clothes and shoes for work and other bits and bobs like hair products, and he said he'll keep a tab to track what I owe him and I can pay him back over the course of a few months. That's fine. I don't expect him to buy everything for me like a sugar daddy.

I have very little left in my bank account and today I asked him if he could transfer me some money to buy a few plants for the garden and mentioned I won't have enough left to buy lunches for work so I'll have packed lunches until the end of the month. He sent me £50 and told me he'll add it to the tab.

I didn't think much of this in the moment, but a few hours later I'm sitting here feeling a bit off. I wouldn't expect or ask him to pay me back for lunch money or household/garden items, and I'm sure my father wouldn't make my mum pay him back for little bits either. I feel like he doesn't fully see our marriage as a complete partnership and sees his money as entirely his. Like there is no marital or household money. If I were to raise this it would probably lead to a fight and me being told I'm entitled. Am I?

I don’t get relationships like this… surely if you live together and especially if you have children, his money should be yours and vice versa. My friend and her fella are like this. He’s minted while she’s scrimping and scraping to clothe their child!

How have you not got the ick? You are married
and he’s adding things to your tab! I couldn’t live like that

Because they are married and he can easily afford to. Because it would be the kind thing to do. Because this isn’t a regular occurrence and it’s stingy and horrid to keep a tab of every time you help your spouse.

I’d divorce him as when you have kids he’ll get worse

That's what sprang out to me, too.

Plus . . . don't let him sit in, or look at, the nice part of the garden.

He's a toad.

Does he work in accounts? My friend has a husband and she has to talk receipts back for him, I think it’s a type of abuse.

This separate finances only works if it is shared equally, and at the moment yours is not. I would bring it up like this. Realistically if he wants to work it out like he is he should only be adding £16.66 for the plants as he should be paying 2/3’s perhaps ask to see the tab and highlight this to him.

And because if he loved OP, it would be something he would be happy to do, and he would do it without a second thought.

He’s tight with money - it’s not healthy - how does he have fun or is it not allowed!!!!

I have got as far as "and told me he'll add it to the tab."

How deeply unattractive.

Omg how can you live like this? Your husband loaning you money? Ew. Why can't you just put your money together and just live off what you have TOGETHER? You don't sound like a married couple, you sound like housemates. If you got divorced you'd likely get half the house and any savings so what's the point in all this? How can you be married and one of you be very comfortable and no money worries and the other person scrabbling about trying to pay for a sandwich at work? I'd leave before you fall pregnant, I'd imagine he'd have you buying all the baby stuff and paying the nursery fees, you know because you're the woman and his spreadsheet says he can't stretch to pay for anything. Yuck. Run.

I split finances in the same sort of way with my partner. We each pay different bills (his come to more than mine) and I pay towards rent, which I transfer each month. We have separate bank accounts etc. we are currently paying for a wedding and he is paying much more than me, we have paid for different things so far and aren’t likely to combine our savings for it as easier just to pay for separate items.

With small items, we just assume things will even out as we take turns to buy stuff for the house etc. if it’s a bigger item (eg £100), then we may ask the other for half. I’ve hit hard times before and he has let me off rent to ease the stress on me, which he had no expectations of me paying back. On the other hand, he had to recently pay £2000 for my car to be fixed and I will be paying that back once I eventually sell my car (in about a year).

I think it is fair to pay back larger amounts of obviously it depends how things are split etc as you should be a partnership. On the other hand, I would be annoyed having to give a large sum to my partner and him refuse to pay me back, especially if I did spend it on non essentials. I think you need to have an honest conversation with him about how you feel.

We have had very separate finances throughout our marriage - 30 years or so - but this is a level of cheapness in your husband that is really disturbing. You gave up your career and came to the UK to marry him and he is quibbling about a few plants? It's probably lucky that he didn't attempt do it yourself dentistry. I wouldn't stay married to him. You're in your twenties. You should be out enjoying yourselves with trips and meals out. You don't get those years back. I think he will always be tight with money.

How are children going to fit into his fight to retire at 35 or whatever he is going to do with his money? Can you imagine how grim he would be as a parent? He would be complaining about every packet of crayons he bought. What if they needed braces?

By the way, I wouldn't be in any hurry to get on the mortgage - I mean a mortgage is just a loan secured over the property. It would be harder to leave if you were on the mortgage because you'd be liable for the debt.

I'm only astonished by the people who think it's wrong for the OP to want to buy clothes for a new job and plants for the garden at this time of year. Or right for a husband to 'loan' his wife money and expect it to be paid back! How do people live like this? We've always had a joint account (long marriage) and separate business accounts because we're both self employed. But even there, we each have a mandate on the other's account, to make things easier. We've always discussed big purchases and reached joint decisions - but that definitely doesn't include buying plants or the things you didn't know you couldn't live without from the middle aisles at Lidl and Aldi. I know every couple is different, but I don't think the OP is unreasonable at all.

I can't get my head around most of the comments here!!!

My husband earns about 4 times more than me. Plus I jobshare ATM so am earning less than I could be. However, whatever money either of us earn, is family money. Jointly owned regardless of who actually earns most of it. If either of us need new clothes for work (and if we can afford the cost obviously), we just buy them. I don't ask my dh's permission! And he doesn't ask for mine. Obviously if one of us had a bad relationship with finances, was a gambler etc, that would be a different issue. We both have our own bank accounts and a joint account. I'm always shocked when I read situations like the OP (and loads of the replies). I couldn't marry someone like this.

He sounds really tight.

I prefer to have separate finances to my DH to a certain degree, which is a hangover from a previous relationship where I ended up getting taken for a mug and nearly ended up bankrupt. However - we achieve this by having a joint account for bills and household stuff ,and maintaining our own accounts for our personal spends. If either of us is short at the end of the month, we can borrow from the joint account and repay it. We always keep a good buffer in there for that reason. Plants for the garden would absolutely come from our joint account.

No spreadsheets here though...

DH and I used to have separate finances and a joint account (that we both contributed to) until I had DC and stopped working then he just had his salary paid into the joint account and we both use that.We are not short of money- he's well-paid. He never checks what I spend, ever. If he did I'd be really angry with him. I do now work again part-time and am well-paid. I just have it paid into the joint account. We do both move money each month into savings.

Are you married to him? I remember earlier in my relationship with my now wife, when we first moved in together, I was a bit reticent about having a joint account because it meant losing control but it made sense. My wife and I have propped each other up a bit here and there financially over the years but we've never kept actual tabs on that.

Have you spoken about it with him - e.g. set out how you'd like the finances to work? I wouldn't just leave it to fester though.

I'm surprised by some of the responses you've had on this thread. He sounds tight at best and financially abusive at worst. Having children with someone like this could go very wrong. There are many women on MN who post about this.

Me and DP aren't married, but we live together and he's a stepdad to my daughter. He earns more than a bit more than 50% more than me and has a lot in savings from living with his parents for years, while I don't as I was struggling as a single mum, We have separate finances and fairly split the household stuff, but he pays half of all my daughter's activities and bus pass, even though he isn't her dad. I never asked him, he just does. When I lost income over Covid he transferred money into my account without asking. If he sees me spending a lot on clothes for DD, as you have to sometimes, and sees me going without anything I need, he gives me some cash to go shopping. When we're out shopping as a family he'll often buy some clothes for DD or some stuff for me. He usually pays when we go for dinner etc and often for the cost of flights for us to visit my home country. He is careful in the fact that we don't waste money, or go to super fancy restaurants and that kind of thing, but if he thinks I need something that I can't afford, he buys it, without putting it on a tab to pay him back. I would find that very difficult to come to terms with in a marriage.

Hi @Tuatara22, from your username I'm guessing you're Antipodean (sorry if I'm wrong!). To help with the credit rating if you haven't already done so you are able to register to vote as Aussies and New Zealanders can vote in all UK elections. Your credit rating definitely goes up when this happens, and it's a massive help.

More broadly (again, I am assuming you're from my part of the world) I don't think people always appreciate how hard it is to move to the UK and take what is often a pay cut and live extremely far from family. Definitely don't think you're being unreasonable though, my boyfriend and I own a property together and while our wages (which are broadly quite similar) go into our respective separate accounts, we contribute to a joint account for bills every month (mortgage, utilities, house bits) and pay each other back for large expenses e.g. plane tickets or if one person has been doing more of the buying dinner out, petrol etc. A joint account with a conventional bank would also help with your credit score (I got a credit card around 9 months after arriving with a very small limit, but I have been a British citizen since birth).

Lots of good advice on this thread but I think most of us understand it isn't always as straightforward as 'leave them immediately'. However I think there are a lot of women on MN who can sense that control like this is usually part of a bigger picture of abuse and control in a relationship.

It's worthwhile remembering that a normal, healthy relationship is where both partners are considered equal. Both of you are adults, both are as capable as the other of making decisions about how you live etc.

When you say that your partner reacts badly to you trying to discuss finances this means your opinion and your voice are not equal to his. He has decided that he wants to spend years living frugally with his money and also your money. Your are 100% allowed to tell him this is not how you want to live your life. He is not a 'bigger, more important adult than you'. He is not somehow more important or superior to you because he is in his home country, or because he's a man, or because he's spent hours on the internet researching ways to make money.

Where you say repairs are needed but who knows when it will happen this again shows that ultimately you believe he is in charge of these decisions (and he's happy you believe this trust me). If your partnership was truly equal you would have just as much right to say to him 'this needs to be done now and therefore I'm arranging it' without him simply shutting the conversation down or reacting badly so you don't dare question him again.

My advice would be this:
Educate yourself on everything. You can usually access 30 minutes free with a family/divorce lawyer - I'm not suggesting you divorce but I am suggesting that you find out what kind of position you'll be in if you decide to leave. If he's obsessed with money I can guarantee he will have thought about his own position financially in detail.

Read up on building your credit rating. Speak to a financial advisor (many offer initial free chats) about how easy it would be for you to be added to his mortgage and whether your credit rating even matters in that situation. Don't accept anything he says on this as gospel.

Make sure you know and have sight of all of your joint bills - it's important that you know what you're contributing towards and easy for him to hide what's really going on if you're not seeing it e.g. in some areas people only pay council tax 10 months of the year - is that the case for you? If so, do you each pay less during those months of just him?

Start to ask questions about the family financial position overall - how much has he saved exactly and where is it? If its in his account and you don't have access he thinks of the money as his and doesn't trust you enough to even access it - at the least this means he thinks you're a liability with money, at worst he doesnt want you to have access in case you use it to leave him. Ask him - does he think of the savings as joint or his? If its joint, why do you get no say in how you spend or invest it?

Controlling men want to keep you in the dark, they're happy for you to play the role of naive, beholden to them, earning less and being away from your home country and support network unfortunately only makes you more open to abuse. If you have children he can stop you and them leaving. And if he's obsessed with money and you decide to split after having kids he will make your life a living hell.

Sorry I haven’t read the full thread but you definitely can have your name on the deeds even though you’re not on the mortgage. Sometimes you might have to jump through a few hoops with the lender and it might be an issue if you have a terrible credit rating (the lender might refuse consent). But you can definitely have your name on the deeds and it’s important in case he ever decides to try to remortgage to take some of the equity out of the house, if your name’s not on the deeds he can do this without your consent.

With regard to the other stuff, I think that the fairest arrangement is that both parties pay into a joint account, the bills get paid and then you split what’s left for spending money.

And yes above all do not think about having kids or making yourself financially dependant on this man (e.g. giving up work) until his attitude is much more normal.

OP, I suggest you leave him asap.
I was in a similar relationship, he earned 3 times as much, but I was still paying half off joint rent and bills (whatever he calculated in his spreadsheet), even when I was on my maternity leave which was something like £100 a week. I was living off my savings at that point.
Then, once he saved money for a house, he asked me to pay my half but he chose a very expensive house, I didn’t have that sort of money! He then insisted I take the mortgage for my half. I didn’t think I would ever be able to get that sort of mortgage or ever pay it off as the house was well beyond my means, so we split.
Just like you, I didn’t see any red flags. My ex didn’t change even after we had a child, he became worse. Save yourself future heartache, leave now.

If he's one of those FIRE (financial independence, retire early) followers then I don't think you have much hope of changing his mindset. It's like a cult isn't it?

Agree with this

Sorry for admitting that I have not read the thread but he is an absolute wanker. No self respecting man behaves
like this. Fuck. Him. Off.