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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

*trigger potential child abuse* stopped my DS going to his dad's tonight

256 replies

Snowdropseaaon · 13/04/2023 20:38

I know I'm not being unreasonable but posting here for traffic.

Today when we were in the car my son said to me "something odd happened last night" I said what's that. He said " I woke up this morning with no shorts on and I don't know how that happened, maybe I moved so much they came off"
He is 6 and still shares a bed with his dad which I haven't been happy about for a while. It could be nothing but his dad just gives me an uncomfortable feeling. When he says bye he smothers him and touches his bum and treats him like a baby. Other times when we have seen his dad in public or at school he whispers in his ear, it's just odd and weird.
There's a whole host of other stuff eg. Not giving him his inhalers, letting him play violent games and other stuff.
Do others think this is off? I've never stopped my son seeing his dad but tonight I haven't sent him.

My ex has gone mental at my saying he's going to drop all he'll and fury on me. Saying he has things he's been keeping about me that he is going to tell the court. That he's going to put everything and his life into court to get DS. So not to drip feed. I left ex when DS was 6 months old and went into a woman's refuge. He was abusive to me emotionally, financially. He was hideous and I was scared of him. Still am but much much stronger and aware of abuse now. Ex hates I have a voice and backbone now.
So I don't know what I should do with next steps really. I tried calling child services for advice but they don't open until 9am tomorrow morning.

OP posts:
Museya15 · 13/04/2023 23:15

LegallyFit · 13/04/2023 23:10

@Museya15 I do understand the concerns, I just think it's a huge leap to accuse the father of doing something inappropriate when there is nothing to suggest that has happened.

And it's a huge leap to suggest nothing happened and carry on regardless. That's so damaging, it's a boy of six, hes not aware of anything sexual at that age, somebody has to advocate for him. It's a massive red flag if he has never taken his underwear off and then finds it odd that he has awoken without any and all the while the dad laying beside him. Social services will most definitely investigate this.

RichardHeed · 13/04/2023 23:17

A child’s trousers and underwear don’t just “fall off” because they were moving around in bed ffs. A grown adult telling a child this and telling them to keep secrets raises no red flags to some people? A man who’s first instinct isn’t to say “I would never do anything to my child” but to threaten to “bring hell down” on op and drag her through the mud…. No red flags there absolute not.

People on this site are on fucking crack.

LegallyFit · 13/04/2023 23:18

@Museya15 I have to disagree, I don't think they will investigate in my experience. They will probably phone dad and talk to him but I don't think they will even talk to the child as he has not disclosed anything in appropriate.

I understand people don't like my comments but I am trained to be objective and what is serious and worrying for a parent, is not so much for professionals. It's rubbish I know, I've been there myself.

Whiskeypowers · 13/04/2023 23:18

LegallyFit · 13/04/2023 23:10

@Museya15 I do understand the concerns, I just think it's a huge leap to accuse the father of doing something inappropriate when there is nothing to suggest that has happened.

That’s why professionals need to decide after speaking to the child independently and in keeping with safeguarding protocols
it sadly is potentially not that huge a leap and downplaying the likelihood of it being a load of tosh because of the child’s age and circumstances is speculative at best incredibly harmful and shortsighted at worst

LegallyFit · 13/04/2023 23:21

RichardHeed · 13/04/2023 23:17

A child’s trousers and underwear don’t just “fall off” because they were moving around in bed ffs. A grown adult telling a child this and telling them to keep secrets raises no red flags to some people? A man who’s first instinct isn’t to say “I would never do anything to my child” but to threaten to “bring hell down” on op and drag her through the mud…. No red flags there absolute not.

People on this site are on fucking crack.

But he's going to be angry, she's stopped him seeing his child and is essentially accusing him of some horrific crimes with no evidence or reason to base that on. I understand he has been abusive to OP in the past which is appalling and I sincerely hope he does not do the same to the child.

You are right, shorts don't just fall off but that doesn't mean dad took them off or did anything to the child.

All OP can do is report it but I don't think it would even meet any threshold for early intervention.

Museya15 · 13/04/2023 23:23

LegallyFit · 13/04/2023 23:18

@Museya15 I have to disagree, I don't think they will investigate in my experience. They will probably phone dad and talk to him but I don't think they will even talk to the child as he has not disclosed anything in appropriate.

I understand people don't like my comments but I am trained to be objective and what is serious and worrying for a parent, is not so much for professionals. It's rubbish I know, I've been there myself.

Take your work head off and tell me if you had a child and they told you the same, would you be so objective?

Lizzt2007 · 13/04/2023 23:25

Bunce1 · 13/04/2023 21:59

ODFOD. Given that CSA is almost wholly perpetrated by men your comment is so so stupid. Over 80% are men. 9% are women and the remainder is unknown.

Show quote history

Yes, but 80% of men are not abusers. The poster is correct. Based in the info provided there is not enough to deny access, especially if it's court ordered. If there's nothing there and ex does take her to court for amended access they would take into account that she's denied access on spurious grounds.

LegallyFit · 13/04/2023 23:26

@Museya15 I have been in that situation in the past. I have had even worse disclosed to me by a family member and I did report it. It did not meet the threshold and it was NFA. This was even with admissions from the other side and it involved potentially serious criminal activity and assault. The other side also told said child to keep secrets etc.

I just wanted OP to be mindful of these issues and to try and look at it objectively. Unless there is something else happening that hasn't been disclosed, I can't see what the dad has done wrong.

Brieandme · 13/04/2023 23:27

@RichardHeed not unusual for an (abusive) ex to threaten their ex when they withhold contact (especially given the insinuation of accusing him of sexual abuse)

Op hasn't said that ex told the child to keep this secret

Not unusual for children to undress themselves. Even if ex did undress his child, not unusual for a parent to do that.

No one is suggesting the ex is a nice guy

Still no evidence that ex has sexually abused his son

@Museya15 no guarantee that a professional would go and speak to a child based on what has been shared. You've said it's speculative to downplay it, how is it not speculation that the OP has jumped up sexual abuse?

A stranger (social worker) turning up to see a six year old and quiz them about co sleeping with dad and not having pants on, would be significant for the kid. They won't do if it appears to be based on the other parents anxiety alone.

LegallyFit · 13/04/2023 23:28

I will qualify that by saying, in respect to the sleeping in the same bed and shorts issue.

Lizzt2007 · 13/04/2023 23:33

RichardHeed · 13/04/2023 23:17

A child’s trousers and underwear don’t just “fall off” because they were moving around in bed ffs. A grown adult telling a child this and telling them to keep secrets raises no red flags to some people? A man who’s first instinct isn’t to say “I would never do anything to my child” but to threaten to “bring hell down” on op and drag her through the mud…. No red flags there absolute not.

People on this site are on fucking crack.

Not trousers, just underwear. And yes my grandson wriggles so much on a night that occasionally his jama bottoms or underwear come off. He also occasionally half wakes and takes them off. Quite frankly had anyone tried to keep my child from me when I had done nothing wrong 'bringing bell down' would have been the mildest of my reactions.

Brieandme · 13/04/2023 23:44

I'm aware that some posters on here might think I'm playing devil's advocate or try to defend dad, and I'm not. But the investigative processes for CSA don't kick in unless there's good cause, and for good reason - they are intrusive, can cause real damage to the child and to the family dynamic. Plus the legal framework that allows such investigations requires that multiple professionals have reasonable cause to agree it's necessary.

Very aware that I'm only going off what OP has posted, but all the things referred to -
Abusive to her in the relationship, acrimonious separation
Trying to play the child off against mum (babying/spoiling him, whispering in front of her etc)
Deciding he knows best re his meds
Threatening her when contact has been withheld

Are all signs of a shitty, horrible ex.

Exes being shitty and horrible does not mean that they're likely to sexually abuse their children

The only thing I can see that ex has posted that has relevance to CSA and the grounds for withholding contact is that child woke up without his shorts on.

That on its own, with nothing else to suggest CSA (and I'm not going to write here what professionals would look for as I don't want to lead anyone) isn't evidence for CSA, or likely to be grounds for professionals to get involved without parents consent (consent from both would be needed)

There is a risk that however well intentioned OP is, ex could use this against her in any future private court proceedings re withholding contact.

LegallyFit · 13/04/2023 23:52

I want to support and agree with what @Brieandme has just said.

I also am in no way trying to defend the fathers past behaviour or his behaviour towards his ex now, I am solely commenting on the reason why contact has been withheld, and that is due to the OPs son waking up without shorts on. As @Brieandme has said, that is not enough to suspect CSA and professionals will not subject a child to investigations relevant to CSA based on this information alone.

I would also like to touch upon what @Brieandme said in her post about court proceedings. I didn't want to mention it but as it has been brought up, I wanted to advise that the judge in a court case could take a dim view of withholding contact based on no evidence of CSA at all. It takes a lot for a court to stop contact with a father and everything the OP has said likely would not even result in supervised contact.

I completely understand OP is looking at it from a maternal perspective, wanting to protect her child which is very admirable and what any mother should do. It's very hard to send your child to someone who you don't trust or like but I just wouldn't want to see this go against you in any way.

Greenfairydust · 13/04/2023 23:55

''@LegallyFit
Just that incident alone, I would not read too much into it if it was me. Your son could have taken his own underwear off in the night. It wasn't necessarily his dad who did it and your son didn't say it was his dad either.It's completely understandable you are worried and it's a parents natural instinct to think the worse but at this point, from what you have posted, there doesn't seem to be anything untoward (in the sense of what children's services would think was unacceptable).''

What?

Don't you have any basic common sense?

This man was abusive to his partner. So to start with he has already proven himself to be a total creep that cannot be trusted.

He has already put his son's heath at risk by withdrawing his inhalers.

Now there are further concerns about dodgy behaviour.

Of course the OP is right to be worried and to take action to protect her son.

Surely no one can be that dim...

LegallyFit · 13/04/2023 23:57

@Greenfairydust Financially and emotionally abusive to OP does not mean he is sexually abusing their son.

I know this is an emotive subject and im more than happy to discuss it but I don't think personal insults are necessary.

Greenfairydust · 13/04/2023 23:59

LegallyFit · Today 23:18
@Museya15 I have to disagree, I don't think they will investigate in my experience. They will probably phone dad and talk to him but I don't think they will even talk to the child as he has not disclosed anything in appropriate.

I understand people don't like my comments but I am trained to be objective and what is serious and worrying for a parent, is not so much for professionals. It's rubbish I know, I've been there myself.

Please be quiet.

The OP is absolutely right to take preventive measures if she has any concerns that her son might be abused.

LegallyFit · 13/04/2023 23:59

@Greenfairydust What evidence is there to suggest he is being abused?

Pebstk · 14/04/2023 00:02

I understand why OP is worried and her gut is telling her something is off but this dies need to be qualified by no disclosure of abuse, that we are (rightly) hyper vigilant nowadays which can lead to worrying/anxiety about something innocent (I remember being concerned the lollipop man gave my son a bar of chocolate) and also being emotionally/financially abusive to an adult partner does not equate to being a paedophile who sexually abuses his own young son - I’m sorry it just doesn’t.

JudgeRudy · 14/04/2023 00:03

What do mean his shorts? As in short pyjamas or short trousers? A child waking up with no shorts on wouldn't necessarily make me think of sexual abuse. I mean it could be...but is that really everyone's first thought?
Yesterday there was a post about an older teenage girl sitting on her Dad's knee, hugging and kissing him but that was deemed OK by most. When StepMum said she found it distasful everyone said she was disgusting for even thinking such a thing! I don't get it
You say your ex has gone mental at you. Have you told him you think he's sexually abusing his child?

Spinninggyro · 14/04/2023 00:07

Better to have this looked into now than risk missing the chance to keep your son safe.

Jellifulfruit · 14/04/2023 00:09

Sending you love. You sound like an incredible mum ❤️

Brieandme · 14/04/2023 00:11

@Greenfairydustthe OP is right to protect her son if she feels she has genuine cause - and there may well be reasons she's not shared her, which I get.

Family court would though take a dim view if they felt a parent had denied a child having a relationship with their other parent on the basis of "safeguarding grounds ' based on spurious reason, or influenced by their own dislike of the ex. There are unfortunately many parents who do claim 'safeguarding grounds ' to control a child's relationship with the non resident parent. Co sleeping and a child waking up without shorts on one occasion and not remembering why, would be very questionable grounds for accusing the ex of sexual abuse.

@Spinninggyro it won't necessarily be looked into, these things aren't done 'just in case'. Professionals quizzing children affects them, they have to have grounds to do so and parents would be to consent - that includes dad.

Pearfacebananapoop · 14/04/2023 00:12

OP accepting he's abusive and an absolute piece of work by the sounds of it, what is it that makes you think he is sexually abusive to your child - before this. You said you were uncomfy with them sharing a bed etc. has he got form for this as well?
(Nb I absolutely agree trust your instincts but it strikes me something has made you think this already).

Sittwritt · 14/04/2023 00:16

Sexual abuse is all about control. And you know he can be controlling. Creep.

blubberball · 14/04/2023 00:29

OP's done the right thing, and I hope that child services will be supportive of her decision. I'm going through similar myself, and have had to stop sending my dc to their dad's for the time being.

💐 For you op, and I'm glad that you're keeping your dc safe with you