to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

[uniformotxa]

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

I have five children. If I offered help to the first to have children, then what happens when the next also has children and expects the same level of help? Then the third, then the fourth? It would either come down to inequality (and who would I help more - those that work full time, the single parent, the one with very low pay?) or trying to be fair and killing myself in the attempt.

I will help out if requested and needed, on an ad hoc basis (parental illness, emergencies, etc), but that's it.

Same here.
We are very happy to do school holiday cover (take them away for a week or two, etc) and absolutely provide emergency cover but we are saving hard to be able to travel in our retirement so don’t want to commit to regular childcare.

We would help with cost of childcare if necessary but ultimately we want to travel.
(I didn’t get any regular help as my family were all working when my child was little but they did help in school holidays when they could)

My parents in law don't want to offer childcare (totally fine!) but expect us to go around to their house every other weekend. We've been at work all week we need to have some family time to ourselves.

Well I don't agree they have a moral obligation to provide childcare. However, I can understand your frustration.

My grandparents (my mums parents) did a huge amount of childcare for her. They had us after school, all school holidays and overnights on weekends pretty frequently. They also used to come to our house every Sunday night so mum and dad could go for a meal together.

My mum is quite opposite. She has my daughter after school on a Tuesday between 3 and 6. That's it. She will do occasional overnights but we're talking once every few months. She doesn't have my daughter for a few hours during the day on a weekend, or during any school holidays. She has openly said to me she didn't retire to look after my daughter, which is her perogative, but given how much she relied upon and valued her own parents for childcare I'd have expected her to have some empathy at least!

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

I think that’s the key there. The moral expectation/ obligation is cultural specific. In some cultures grandchildren/grandparents are extremely important - much more so than any friends, no matter how close, which you may have formed of your own accord. While in other cultures like Britain grandchildren/grandparents are more akin to cross generational friends: you may take a deep interest in their life or you may just send the occasional photo/seasonal card. There’s far less cultural based expectation on the nature of the relationship.

How many times do you see women chastised for wanting to have children in their late 50s because they would be 'too old' to cope with young kids.
Then we deem it OK to want them to look after their grandkids who often have special needs.

I wish... my PIL have always expected lots of help for things they can easily do themselves but don't/wont.

My parents help out a bit in school holidays but didn’t with nursery age. Although to be fair we did end up living with them for a bit when we had issues with our house. I think grandparents as child care works well when it isn’t relied on and there’s flexibility.

My mum currently provides unlimited childcare for my daughter. I wouldn't be able to cope without her help. On some weeks she has my daughter for six days. And we also get at least two childfree days a month. I didn't want to keep my daughter when I first found out I was pregnant because I was only 27 and I was worried about what it might do to my career and standard of living. My in laws also do childcare. My mum was the one who promised all of this so maybe if the OP had talked it out before she had children she would have some help.

I don't think I would want to do childcare for my grandchildren though. I would only want to visit once a week.

I had no help myself but had i had a family around, they would certainly have helped. I have friends who all have parental support and dont need nurseries. They balk at the idea! I wouldnt have taken full advantage though if it were me, but my friends do it all the time.

Not entitled to it, no, but I do sort of agree. My parents didn't help us at all (a couple of times when eldest was a baby and still a novelty) and to be honest I was a bit shocked and admit I was expecting them to offer more as my mums parents had us very regularly, including to enable my mum to go on holiday with her friend for a break a couple of times. What stings most is that they've done loads for my golden sister and her kids. As another poster said, you reap what you sow. I'm assuming they'll expect my sister to do the bulk of their care when they need it ... but I won't be surprised if I'm expected to do my share (sister doesn't like driving and "gets anxious" a lot whereas I tend to soldier on). Pah.

I completely understand how you feel. My husbands mum and my dads partner ( not even related) have my DD once a week each which is so appreciated! My retired mother hardly helps at all except for ad hoc days when it suits her. It does sting and I feel like she’ll be the one missing out long term. Although I’m still expected to have her dog when she goes on holiday . 🙄

Yes and I think that it’s a huge problem in our society that families live in isolated little units with no help from wider family members. We’re not meant to live like that and it causes huge amounts of stress even if we’re not fully aware of it.

I think that a nice person would want to both see their grandchildren and help our their children at the same time. I wouldn’t expect it to be more than one, possible two days a week though.

But on Mumsnet it’s everyone for themselves and woe betide anyone have any help if the poster didn’t receive any.

Not RTFT but I am from another culture. In other cultures, grandparents step up more because it is normal for three generations to live together. Would you be ok to have your mum living with you? Or your MIL?

I don't think it's morally dire. You are an adult - they raised you & now your life is your own - you chose to have children presumably without asking them first about whether they would be prepared to step up & commit to unpaid childcare. Did your grandparents help out with you? I can see how you may be upset if they received help themselves. Honestly, if my DC have DC of their own I wouldn't want to commit to childcare duties again / be tied to not traveling outside of school holidays or whatever. I'd be up for the occasional weekend. I think it's a big ask and anyone who has parents to do this for them are jolly lucky. I also have zero expectations of my DC caring for me in my old age. I'd like to think they'd visit once in a while (!) but I don't want any of them to be my unpaid carer, I want them to have their own lives, free of moral obligation & be able to stand on their own two feet.

'Only 27' ???

My in-laws benefited from a huge amount of regular childcare from both sets of their parents, and my MIL was a SAHM. When we had children my FIL was very clear they would not provide regular childcare, only occasional days in the holidays. I was orphaned as a teenager so had no parents to help out.

It was incredibly hard, and took most of our wages, but I accepted my PILs had the right to not be expected to replace nursery or after school club. I only get annoyed when my FIL talks about how well they coped with three children, and how people just need to get on with things!

A lot of people who are saying that their parents had help with them as children may not be taking into account that, perhaps when THEY were young the retirement age was a lot younger, and there were also more women who just never worked (it depends on generation). So they were more available for childcare for their children - this is how it used to be. Now everyone has to work until they are 67+, unless they have large private pensions.

Absolutely this. Anything someone does out of their own will, is their responsibility to handle. Whether that's having children, or being left with no money because they squandered it. Your decision, your responsibility.

I am from another society. It's pretty stressful living with your inlaws. All my friends live with their batshit and borderline abusive mothers in law, who provided child care yes, but at what cost?That's the other side of the picture.

Definitely not.
If they don't want to as they now want to enjoy their own time why shouldn't they?
It's a bit like saying that when you as a parent are not at work it's morally wrong to do anything for yourself that doesn't include your children. Which would also be nonsense.

LOL you have the choice to say no to the dog, but comparing child sitting to dog sitting is laughable. Not quite the same is it.

I think it’s morally dire for a grown woman, old enough to hold down a job and have children, to have childcare (arguably, any) expectations of her parents. I’m not joking.

Where is your compassion and empathy and understanding for them?

If you yourself had grandparents only in their 60s (it happens), would you expect this of them, too?

MN never ceases to amaze.

Sounds like your mum is closer to a parent than a grandparent.