to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

[uniformotxa]

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

@CandleInTheStorm, both my parents worked FT, we always worked FT. Many parents did even then. One thing 6ou have forgotten from your list is that parents were much likely to have to support THEIR parents rather than the other way around.

I spent so much of my childhood with relatives so my parents could socialise/have free time, so it felt weird that my parent wouldn't think that I might want a small bit of that sometimes
@bunhead1979 you think it's weird because to you if someone does you a favour you owe them a favor back.
I would say that your parents have a very different mindset, ie they are at the top of the hierarchy and are entitled to have everything on their own terms. Therefore when you were a child they got their parents to do the menial work of looking after their children. They still see themselves as being at the top of the hierarchy and they do not see it as their job to do any of your menial work.
Obviously you are the right and the moral one but you've lost out because you assume that other people share your values when they clearly don't!

That argument is like the people saying on the Jr doctor thread that they knew the conditions beforehand so why did they become a doctor?

The point was, people saying "but they've done their child rearing" don't take into account how much help they had from either their own family or kicking the kids out all day. A little empathy wouldn't go amiss for today's family.

What I will say is, you reap what you sow. I don’t think my kids will be overly close to their grandparents in adulthood and that’s probably a factor

My children are adults and very close to their grandparents. They spent a lot of time with them as children and have a lovely loving and caring relationship.They just never looked after them alone or 'provided regular reliable childcare'. That's more of a job than a relationship.

I fully intend to politely decline to provide regular childcare for any children my son might have in the future.

In an emergency I would be there in a heartbeat and will even take the grandchildren for sleep overs and days out but otherwise I fully intend to enjoy my retirement. DH and I have plans to go travelling.

I have 3 kids. They are all in different parts of the uk. (England, Scotland, Northern Ireland)

Which one should I do childcare for?

You got me at the, 'moral obligation', so in other words its immoral of them not to offer regular childcare. What an entitled madam you are! their moral obligation was to look after you, their dc, not their grand children, that is YOUR moral obligation.

I think it’s awful to feel that grandparents should be obligated to help. The fact that the OP seems to be referring to one grandparent rather than a couple makes me feel rather sorry for the grandparent.

It was never a consideration for us because of distance and ill health. I'm also not sure it's viable to ask someone to be part of your weekly cover without fail. But in an ideal world, I would so appreciate having family nearby who could babysit in the evenings occasionally or who would have them round for an afternoon at the weekend because it's fun - the freedom and relaxed support this would give would be amazing.

Too many variable situations, I was still working full time when my grandson was a baby/toddler. And live an hours drive away. But he stayed at mine when his parents went to weddings, city breaks etc and have had him for a week every school summer holidays since 2016. They certainly didn't expect free childcare. I had a similar set up with my children, appreciated a break now and then but didn't expect regular childcare.

I don't think that they are morally obligated but I will admit that it thoroughly pisses me off that both my Grandparents and my husband's grandparents supported our parents with child care on a very regular basis but my Mum has never minded our kids for even a night and the one time she watched them for us to go out she left at 3am when we got home because she didn't feel it was her partner's (very long term partner) responsibility to look after and feed the dogs in the morning.

My MIL has watched our kids a couple of times in about 10 years but my FIL is a bully to both her and our kids so they cant be left with him around and my MIL has to 'take care' of my FIL around her full time job... cos that's what women do, so she will rarely come to our house and stay without him.

It sucks knowing the advantages Grandparent's help gave them while we miss out but such is life.

Take the positives....at least you know they won't expect any regular care from you when they get too old to manage independently. They can go in a care home as you won't be expected to give them any regular help.

Silver linings and all that

it is absolutely their choice. In the same way it was your choice to have children. Morality does not come into it. Why should they spend their retirement doing childcare if they want to do other things

There's no moral obligation.
You are being extraordinarily unreasonable.
One day per week on a regular basis is a huge commitment not a 'not even a...'
Young children/babies are exhausting at the best of times. Double exhausting when they're not your own. Treble exhausting when you are over 60.

You really should have thought this through before you had kids.

BTW I say that as someone who had absolutely zero help on both sides

My mum always worked, too (she was a single mum), but never paid for childcare. We either went to an aunts house, played in the front room of my nans rest home, she managed, or we played out all day. Yes, parents worked, but the expectation to put kids in expensive childcare settings wasn't there. It was the village raising the dc mentality.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t.

YABU.

I'm not sure you appreciate quite how entitled this sounds. It isn't "lucky" that you can afford childcare. If you choose to have children, it's your absolute responsibility as their parent to ensure you can do this. And if you failed to do so, the fact you'd "feel more strongly" about your parents choosing not to bail you out with free childcare during their retirement years is quite frankly the only morally reprehensible thing about the entire scenario. Grow up.

It’s a big commitment, I know because I provide wrap around care for my Grandson, he’s at full time nursery.
I’m up at 6.30 all bar Wednesdays to get to DD’s for 07.15, she leaves at 07.30. I take DGS to nursery for 9.00 then I go back to hers at 3.00. I often put a wash on / clean the kitchen/ hoover etc. before getting him at 3.30, I make him a meal and either DD or her partner will get home at 5ish. Twice a week DH will arrange his work so he can get DGS from school and spend time with him.
His other Grandparents have him a couple of hours one afternoon but often bail at short notice, then will moan about not seeing him enough, even though I’m flexible and would let them have him another day, they just can’t be arsed basically.
I had him full time weekdays from 9 months to 2.5 and they lived further away. At least DD is a Teacher so I get a break in the holidays - but that means no cheap holidays for us. That’s what annoys me about his other GPs, they go away at the drop of a hat and expect me to pick up the slack but I know they wouldn’t reciprocate.
I admit I’m looking forward to him getting older so he can stay in after school club etc. I’ve got this for at least the next 7 years so it’s no small ask.

I don't think they HAVE to but I would want to when I'm a grandparent. I'd never want my DC to have to pay through the nose for someone else to look after my grandkids. Neither of my grandparents had me religiously and it shows in our relationship now, we aren't close at all. Where's my DC goes regularly to my parents and MIL's and I feel already they are so much closer because of this. I'd say when you decide to have kids you also (most of the time) decide to be grandparents one day too.

The other issue is the demand made by the parents. Of course grandparents should respect parents attitude to discipline and safety requirements, but going by MN, some demands are no less if not more what they would expect from a paid nanny so that grandparents are just that, babysitters rather than the kuds' grandparents.

That's how I look at it really. If you consulted them before the shagging commenced then fair enough.

I was with you a little bit, from your title about 'any' childcare. But I was thinking about occasional babysitting, or help if parent gets sick. Certainly not to a regular set up, I would never expect that, and would never ask.

I think I would like to provide similar childcare to my kids (now teens so hopefully a way away) that I was provided. Regular ad hoc childcare so we could attend functions, tidy the house etc and later (and still now for my ILs) holiday cover so we can take regular long weekend breaks which is lovely. My DS has just been to stay with them on his own for a week of the Easter hols.
I would not want to be committed to a regular day a week childcare and nor did they (although they covered sickness etc if they were available). This would be tiring and interfere with travelling/holiday plans - it is also has the potential to lead to conflict if you can't do it/if their views on rules are radically different to yours.
My ILs would have helped us financially but it was not necessary (although they offered often). I can also probably offer this if one of my DC is struggling.
What I value most from my parents/ILs is the interest they take in all of my DC. Now they are older they text them, have separate relationships with them, see them individually and together. They are excited by all my DC's successes and supportive to me/DH when we have to cope with their struggles (and there have been a lot of struggles). I'm happy and grateful to have had both sets in my lives.
So no I do not think it is morally poor not to provide regular childcare.

Unless the gp explicitly promised they’d be very hands on if you had kids then no there is no obligation moral or otherwise. It’s nice to have that help but it’s not a right or an entitlement of parents to expect it.

They do provide childcare, and they're perfectly entitled to offer it on their terms. I don't think it's morally wrong that they don't provide a regular timeslot of childcare, they likely don't want to be tied down in their retirement, which is completely valid. If they provide ad hoc childcare, so you have time to yourself, that's more than many parents get, so YABU and unfair on your parents.