to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

[uniformotxa]

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

I have 3 children- by your logic I am morally responsible to provide consistent , even if not full time, childcare to all of their children? When do I get to putter in my garden or travel or meet friends for lunch? Even if we committed to say school pick up and some afternoons, then I am back to the running around to activities and prepping dinner.
That said, I want to have a close relationship with my grandchildren so I will always do emergency help and also fun grandparent weekend activities to give my kids a break here and there. I hope that my kids understand that I already put in a lot of time and happily deferred many wants of my own to raise them and when they have children it will not be a “job” for me to provide care unless I choose to.

This is SO spiteful and illogical.

Excellent post.

Just another day on MN

We're very lucky to have massive support on both sides. I'm don't agree they're morally obligated but I find it strange when grandparents aren't interested. My son's grandparents can't get enough of him.

My DPs are healthy, retired and plenty of disposable income. They like going on long holidays, travelling for several months at a time and, generally, doing stuff. There's no way I'd ask them to give that up to provide regular childcare. They've worked bloody hard and now deserve to have some fun.

IMO quite a bit will depend on the age of the GPs. Younger parents often don’t realise how exhausting very young children can be when you’re no longer used to it.

Dh and I did one day a week with the first Gdc (we offered) but the 2nd arrived when the first was still well under 2, and both would have been too much - we were relatively fit, but both late 60s. We offered to help with childcare costs instead. And still did one-offs and emergencies.

I never had any help with ours - all GPs far too far away, and TBH I don’t think anyone should feel obliged, but it’s nice if they want to help.

I know my DM certainly thought that after 4 of her own, and never any help (no relatives anywhere near) she’d done her bit, so I’m glad I never needed to ask.)

I wouldn’t expect either set of grandparents to provide regular childcare. I’ve 2 small ones and the cost of nursery is crippling but I still think it’s too big an ask. That being said, I’m staying at my parents with the kids for a few nights this week and I’m feeling a bit miffed because I’m still doing EVERYTHING. I’ve taken them out every day on my own to give my parents some peace because I can tell they’re finding it a bit much. I think what I would really appreciate while I’m here is being offered a lie in or an hour to myself but instead my mum is just moaning that she’s feeling tired. They’re both retired and they honestly don’t leave the house most days. They never offer to babysit. I’m venting a bit really because I’ve been feeling annoyed about it all day!

Op didn't mention her mother, she said parents.

I could well imagine that if we support our son with childcare in future that my husband will take the lead with it - he's fantastic with small children and would absolutely love doing it if time and health allows.

Honestly I think it’s morally wrong how many adults pressure their aging parents to provide childcare to save themselves money. They are basically expecting older people to work for them for free, it’s gross.

They accuse grandparents of wanting to see the kids on their terms only, but it’s usually the parents wanting to enforce the ‘terms’ by expecting free labour so they can save money on nursery and not have to bother themselves with visiting at weekends. And it is labour - small children are utterly exhausting even when you’re young and fit. I can’t imagine what it’s like when you’re in your sixties - even a ‘fit’ 65 year old is still 65! Parents tell themselves grandparents should want time with their grandchildren but completely overlook the vast difference between spending time with them as part of the wider family and being in sole charge of them and completely responsible, for long days. It’s TOTALLY different.

At school pick up our playground has quite a few regular grandparents and I hear them talking to each other - most are knackered and clearly would rather be somewhere else. My impression is most probably know it’s this or barely see their grandchildren. It really makes me sad.

So really, the idea that it’s the grandparents who are the morally deficient ones is laughable. Try the greedy parents!

People always say, "But why should they? They've done their child rearing." Well, yes, they have, but they had it much easier than parents do today (hear me out...)

1. They didn't have today's ridiculous living costs (even before the col crises) to just rent or buy a home.
2. Nowadays, both parents have to work to afford said rent or mortgage if they were lucky enough to buy.
3. They didn't have the ridiculous childcare costs we have now to put your dc in nursery to keep the job to pay your ridiculous rent or mortgage.
4. Kids were far more "free" to play out in the neighbourhood. Nowadays, you can't just kick your dc out of the house and tell them to be back by teatime.
5. A lot of families lived closer, and friends/family/neighbours were allowed to tell dc off and helped out, hence the saying, "It takes a village to raise a child."

You only have to read the thread going at the moment asking what your parents do back then that social services would be involved now? It's full of stories about how parents basically neglected their kids all day, whereas now the expectation is you actually have to look after your own kids! Parenting is hard, but they certainly didn't have it harder, and a little empathy for today's parents who can't just kick the kids out all day to do what they want no matter how dangerous roam the streets wouldn't go amiss!

No, there is no moral obligation. The grandparents have no say in your decision to have children.

Of course, they would do well to consider this cuts both ways and a time might come where the grandparents need support from their children, which the children are under no obligation to give.

Like absolutely everything in life, wait till you've walked in their shoes before casting judgement
This 100%. I work FT my entire career, even when my kids were small and we're in nursery.

I have 8 years to go before retirement and I can't wait to finally have the freedom to do all the things Ive always wanted to do. I don't plan my retirement to be at home doing nothing. I intend on travelling a lot, do many activities, get with my friends, sport, etc....

I do intend to dedicate time to my future grandchildren and to help my kids and family, but not on a regular basis. I don't want to only be able to travel when they take holiday time or later during school holiday time. Thankfully, I know my kids wouldn't expect it and any help I do provide will be a bonus.

Most grandparents I know work.

And they'll have to keep working well into their 60s.

They can't afford to give up work and look after someone else's choices!

When I do eventually retire, I hope to travel. I won't be committing to a regular pattern of childcare for anyone. And I won't feel guilty about it as we did it all on our own as well without any help from anyone.

The only people I view differently are those that insisted upon/accepted loads of regular free childcare from their own parents and extended families, now don't work and are perfectly fit and healthy and nearby, and don't give back. I do view that differently as the hypocrisy is amazing.

But the parents, living in the here and now and aware of all the constraints you describe, still chose to have children.

Why is that on the grandparents?

There's no moral element to providing childcare.
There's possibly a moral element to having a relationship with their grandchildren, making an effort to get to know them and spend time with them.
But no. Grandparents are not morally obliged to provide childcare. That's for parents, nurseries, childminders etc

What a ridiculous post, they r yr kids, so therefore yr responsibility not the grandparents.

My thoughts exactly.

People looking back at grandmothers who looked after them are forgetting that many of us had grandmothers who didn't have a life of paid work outside the home. Their lives were largely organised around looking after their family and so grandchildren were a part of that. But many women now in their 60s and 70s have been in paid employment as well as raising their own children while shouldering the majority of domestic work and looking after their parents. They really prize their retirement, particularly those early years of retirement when they're fit and able to travel and do what they want freely. And you will likely feel the same way after you've worked for 40 years.

But your op is contradictory
You're saying it's only unreasonable if grandparents refuse to do ANY childcare - but then say your dps would be happy to take kids for a day on the odd occasion (so arent refusing to do any childcare) but what they are offering is of no use to someone needing regular childcare.

So what you're actually saying is are grandparents who don't commit to regular childcare unreasonable which is a completely different question -particularly because by "regular" I assume you mean at least once a week to be of any use in terms of nursery etc.

You can't expect grandparents to provide childcare for a multiple of reasons, even if most people on good terms with their dc would want to help out when they can. But expecting them to commit to regular childcare is a lot to ask - and in many cases inpractical even if they wanted to - e.g. if the GPs still work full time themselves, if they live too far away to make a weekly trip, if they have poor health etc.

Some Grandparents choose to look after their grandchildren and if it works for everyone then great.

But to suggest that they have a moral obligation to look after them is beyond ridiculous and entitled.

Well I think that it is swings and roundabouts, what you give you receive and in the circumstances laid out in the op title if the gp does not help then they would have a job asking for help in their old age.

I would discount any obligation due to care of the OP as a child as that is not the OPs responsibility, but as a family once you are all grown up it is a case of pulling together and helping out - and that goes both ways.

I come from a culture where grandparents helping is a norm rather than a favour. This comes from poverty and lack of adequate infrastructure but also has roots in the ways family is perceived (in my culture - it is way more about the 'village' than about an individual, like here). Because of our jobs and lifestyle - we weren't really sure we'll be anywhere near either set of grandparents so all our plans were based upon only what the two of us, as parents, can provide.

We ended up living close to DHs parents and I am very very grateful that they are able AND WILLING to be engaged with our child. We do pay for nursery but send them 'school hours' and grandparents pick them up and spend time with them until we're done with work (so about 2-3h per day).

I don't think grandparents are morally obliged to contribute. I do feel that like with any human relationship - whether they are or not involved is related to their desire for a certain quality/depth of a relationship with the 'next generation'. It is not an obligation for grandparents, much like it is not an obligation for those children later in life to socialise with those grandparents beyond elementary family gatherings.

I had a very involved set of grandparent and a very disinterested set myself. There is literally nothing I wouldn't do for the first... and I barely consider myself related with the second. But I do not judge them - I just don't have an interest in them.

Has the OP actually asked their parents to help? Or are they just assuming they will offer? The parents may think everything is already taken care of?

Only read your OP but no, grandparents are not under any obligation to provide free childcare. Why should they? I’ve done my time, I want to enjoy my retirement!