to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

[uniformotxa]

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

My grandparents generation of wartime folk didn't have the cash or health to go off on cruises etc. They did a lot more childcare...we loved them dearly... but times have changed. I hope for the better.

I left school at 16, worked 50 years before retiring. Had my last DD at 41, second marriage,a year later also looking after my DGS. In my 50s, fairly young child, working ft nights, driving 80 mile round trip, straight after work to look after terminally ill Father. Since retiring,up till last year,shared childcare with other grandparents. They're younger,were still working
When they were ill, would get early call, drive 40 miles in the rush hour some time took 2 hours. They moved last year 10 minutes down the road. My DD accompanied me to hospital and dental appointments. Works both ways for us. We all muck in as a family. I have a disabled son an 80 mile round trip.

I'm a GP that provides extensive childcare around my own full time job (shifts) at weekends, overnights etc. However, I'm only 53, fit as a fiddle and want to do it. My children made it very easy, choosing to live close, and also clarified how I felt about childcare BEFORE having their children, so there was no lack of shared expectations.
I would feel very differently if I were nearer 70 (as I probably will be when youngest has children) had any health problems or had childcare responsibility expected of me without any prior discussion.
So, while GP care can be fabulous for all concerned, the feasibility of it depends on so many variables, and its absolutely essential to communicate and clarify beforehand. It would save so much disappointment and resentment.

I had my daughter very young and was very lucky to have two extremely enthusiastic sets of grandparents eager to pitch in. She has a lovely relationship with them now but they were still fairly young (comparatively) when she was born so I suppose it's not really the same thing. I don't think I'd expect them to babysit a young child NOW as they're older, but they'd probably both still want to. I don't feel they were ever obligated morally though, I was just very lucky.

My daughter is adamant she doesn't want children so I don't know that I'll ever have to find out if I'd want to babysit as a grandparent!

I think the unreasonable part is children (plural). Offering childcare is massively different depending on the number and ages of children/babies. We decided to stop at one with childcare being a key factor. Both sides are fairly happy to have one grandchild who is obviously also getting older and easier to deal with. With two children I would never expect more than sporadic help from the grandparents, maybe 1-3 times a month. With 3 children I would not expect any help at all unless it's an absolute emergency or special occasion.

It's also quite nice to do something FOR yourself after a lifetime of raising children and working.

God, don't even get me started on the endless photos. Weirdly, it never occurred to me to inflict framed pictures of my kids on my parents. I figured if they wanted some, they'd ask.

Some of these replies! From the sublime to totally ridiculous.If I am lucky enough to be a Grandma then I would relish Babysitting duties! A couple of days a week ,and odd evenings still leave 5 out of 7 days untouched.I was a Nursery School Teacher and adore children . I do wonder if these GDP get old and in need of some help would these DC step up? Surely families help one another out? I watched in awe a programme about a lovely family who had 2 boys plus identical triplet boys! Mum worked 3 days and her Mum babysat.Looked exhausting to me ,but the love and care shone through .

I do wonder if these GDP get old and in need of some help would these DC step up? Surely families help one another out?

Haven't your parents helped enough by raising you? Why do they need to do more?

Some of these replies! From the sublime to totally ridiculous
I think yours is veering towards the latter.

If you are in your sixties, there is a good chance that you’ll still be doing some form of elder care - or are starting to do some form of care for a spouse.

Or you keep working.

I remember a friend who was asked to change her days at work for a meeting but didn’t have childcare for a Monday. “What about your Mum?” beamed her boss - who then looked astounded to be told that her mum still worked full time. Women don’t generally have oodles of empty time waiting to be filled.

I'm still amazed by the number of posters who all assume that only grandmothers could possibly be asked to help out. I know it's the norm, but it's not the bloody law.

My parents are both dead and my husband's live in another country, so not relevant to us, but some of my friends get regular childcare help from their fathers.

I know for certain that if time, distance and health allows, my husband will absolutely want to be actively involved with grandkids.

True. My dm used to help out a lot with my kids when they were young. When she died suddenly, my lovely dad, even in the depths of his grief took over. I think it kept him going in a way. He would pick them up from school and watch them until I got home. Even when my mum was alive, they did the childcare between them as he had just retired although dm did more than df.

OP won't be back quelle surprise.

People fall for it again and again

It's still an interesting read, even if it was started by a journalist or a troll.

I think the only reasonable expectation would be for grandparents to be available for the occasional emergency cover. I do not understand why people have kids and think anyone else should have any responsibility for their care. Grandparents have worked hard and done their child rearing and are now at a stage where they finally have the freedom to do and go where they want and when they want so rightfully may not want to be tied down to a formal arrangement especially to be employed as free childcare.

It just depends on your family culture. Mine is grandparents work (I work full time) so simply aren't around or they have been too old eg my grandfather had my father at age 49 and his own father had been a similar age (my grandfather was last child of 10). On the other side my grandmother had my mother at about 30 and my mother had us all in her 30s so that tends to make grandparents quite old. Both my grandfathers were dead before I was born and my own parents died in their 70s (we are not long livers.... must be all this working full time until we die or the decrepit North East mining stock from which I come).

No. Sort your own childcare out. You made the children.

So any parent who has already done childcare by looking after their own children is entitled to expect care in old age from those same children. Whether they look after any grandkids or not is irrelevant. Got it.

Or did you actually mean that they ought to be doing two lots of childcare (care of their own children, and then some more care of their grandchildren) in order to receive one lot of old-age care in return?

*obviously I know the answer! 😜

Surely there is a sensible middle ground? Interested grandparents who visit and provide childcare “ad hoc” and in emergencies but aren’t expected to commit to regular childcare one or more days per week. That’s the grandparent I am willing to commit to being- I’ll take the grandchildren for days out/visit and for overnights/ parts of holidays/to give my children a break, and in emergencies without hesitation. Might not be every single week, mind you. But am I going to commit to one or more days a week? Absolutely not- what I do for one child I would have to be prepared to do for the others (unless distance didn’t allow) so I could end up essentially providing full time childcare for different sets of grandchildren. That’s not a fair expectation. I want my retirement to be my own- I have spent decades having my timetable largely dictated by outside requirements (out of necessity, just like most other people) via work and family commitments. I want to be able to go and do things without having to check with my children or having to plan it all out in advance or feeling guilty about letting my children down. I want to be able to have a lie in if I want to, to meet friends for coffee without having to plan around everyone else’s timetable, to go do things spontaneously if I fancy it. I don’t want to have to take my holidays in term time or negotiate it around what my children can manage.

I don’t get all the resentment. Why would you want to curtail your parents (or more likely mothers) retirement in that way? Don’t you want your parents to have a good retirement? In all likelihood they have worked hard for a long time, presumably done at least an ok job of parenting you (as I can’t imagine why you’d want someone you thought was a poor caregiver to look after your children regularly), and deserve to have a time to do what they want, as they want, when they want in their retirement Hopefully, that would include visits, taking their grandchildren out for the day or having them to stay etc. But there should not be an expectation of a regular, defined commitment- especially if used in lieu of formal childcare.

my DB and SIL feel like this. They have 3 children, reasonably spread out and don’t live all that close (over an hour). They reluctantly accept that my parents can’t provide full time care for a toddler or before/after school care for the older 2 due to travelling times, but have said in the past that mum could stay over one night a week. She quite forcefully declined. But they really do seem to think that my parents should have them for the majority of school holidays. Full time, overnight. My SIL did kindly say they could be brought back on Friday night and collected Sunday night. Neither DB not SIL drive so with any childcare, whoever is providing it has to either stay at theirs or collect and return the children. If anything this behaviour means they get less offers of help than might otherwise be the case as there is a fear of creating expectations. Mum will always help in an emergency, or if they want to go to a wedding or special event. And does have them overnight/ for a few days at a time but my DB and SIL have made it fairly clear they feel hard done by.

I can sort of see why- my parents live in a property on our land. They are a 2 minute walk and my children would pop in all the time, mum would have them after school if it suited her- but if she couldn’t it is never an issue as I have other childcare arrangements in place (school had wraparound care and that is the default). She used to do some holiday cover- now they are older not needed. But again, not a default/committed- we always had more formal things arranged and they did what they wanted. I get it can seem unfair- but the distance does make a difference and I don’t think you can expect the same amount of input when you are an hour away vs 2 minute walk. Also, the fact it is never required makes it easier to dip in and out without fearing a guilt trip or building an expectation.

I think there are just very different attitudes towards family depending on personalities and cultures. In my family we very much strive to help and support each other as much as possible. My parents look after my daughter 2 days a week while I work, I look after my niece 2 days a week while my sister works. We are moving to be closer to our parents, in part to make childcare easier, but also in part so that when they are old and infirm we can help look after them.
I can't imagine ever saying to my kids when they grow up "Well you chose to have children so it's your problem" and refusing to help. I'll do whatever I need to to care for and support my children and grandchildren until the day I die. To me, that's what life is all about.

I do know though in some families there is a much more individualistic perspective. I am responsible for my problems and you are responsible for your problems, and we are in no way obliged to put ourselves out for or help each other. That's fine too as long as everyone is happy with the arrangement. It's a different approach to the meaning of family which suits some people. It wouldn't suit me at all though.

I actually think it's the children of parents who demand regular and consistent childcare from their retired parents as a right and a given are the ones that are morally bankrupt .

As someone who is nearly 60, I think that it is perfectly possible to be in one's 60s, still fit and able bodied, but to find the prospect of providing full days of childcare exhausting, @Sparrow80. I think many people look forward to retirement as a time when they can take things easier, be a bit more spontaneous, spend more time on their hobbies - isn't that the pay-off for working hard during your adult life? To have to start looking after very small children at that point in life looks pretty daunting to me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Currently we have only one grandchild, and we don't live anywhere near them - ds1 lives in Suffolk because that's near his work, and it was his choice to work in the South of England, whereas dh and I live near Glasgow (we relocated here for dh's work when the boys were 11,13 and 15). So there is no way we could provide childcare for our granddaughter, unless we relocated - but as our other two sons live and work in Scotland, and will probably stay here when they have got families, if we moved to Suffolk, we wouldn't be able to help them and their families.

All we can do is offer help in an emergency - dh has gone down and stayed with them when my DIL needed surgery only shortly after our granddaughter was born.

No there is zero obligation. I never asked my parents or PIL, ever.

My sisters in law both totally take advantage of my MIL.

I look after my toddler nephew a couple of times per month (I work full time). I'm only 43 but honestly it's exhausting. My sil is pregnant again and of course I'll continue to help out but tbh I'm already thinking about how hard two will be. So no when I become a grandparent I won't be offering regular childcare in place of nursery.