to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

[uniformotxa]

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

It will be harder as women have to work until they are 67 before retiring.
This will be me, I can’t afford to retire before then unless I win the lottery. This means I won’t be providing free childcare to my grandchildren ( if I have any). It also means I won’t be providing care for my elderly parents. Those are the facts. The consequence of governments burying their head in the sand over how we provide for parents and the elderly.
I do look back at my ex fil who stopped working at 55 and think what a luxury that was. His wife still did everything around the house. So he didn’t work and he still had wifey as a domestic servant.
Yet we had to pay for childcare.
That’s the crux for me. Most couples will not be like this going forward so most grandparents can’t supply childcare.

@Dowellif do you really think women didn't work before 1970? Ffs women have always worked for pay. Poke your nose out of that middle class bubble.

OK - I'll bite. Please do provide a link to stats showing the years in which the majority of women a) worked for 40 years b) retired in their 60s.

Happy to be proved wrong but think you'll find trends in a) labour market participation and b) life expectancy make this generation's labour market experiences unique.

As to my nose and a middle class bubble, I think you are making some large assumptions there

The problem with this is that it can blur the boundaries of the grandparent relationship when they become an unpaid childcare provider and create a lot of resentment on both sides.

My friends who get help from parents are in two definite camps 1) moan about their parents and in-laws’ care decisions, are extremely entitled and want to dictate where, when etc and are affronted when grandparents want to go on holiday or ever have a day off or 2) are extremely grateful for the support and never ask them to babysit any other time as they are respectful of their free time. It totally depends on the parent, the grandparents, personalities, the adults’ relationships, distance, so many things.

Personally we live 150-450 miles from all four parents so haven’t had any support but I am absolutely certain I would not have wanted it as I know them well enough that it could have been a recipe for disaster. My kids have lovely relationships with all of their grandparents though so it hasn’t affected that. They obviously don’t see them as much as if they were local but I prefer our set up as the distance works for us.

@Dowellif for which country? In the UK I'd say the whole of the C18 and 19 (all those servants and cotton mills). "Working for pay" is always tricky in UK history because married women and girls didn't own things in their own right so when they worked for the family business they didn't draw wages yet their labour was part of the cash economy.

Obviously a lot of women in the c18 and 19 didn't work for 40 years because they died young. But they certainly worked for their whole lives alongside child-rearing/homemaking.

I'm with you. My parents are both in extremely good health. My mum has never worked and my dad retired 10 ish years ago. Both early 70's.
Always excuses - first it was no as you are breastfeeding, then it was nappies, then just no.
My eldest is 17 now and never slept over or been looked after by my parents except one time when I had a day operation in hospital but out the same day.
She doesn't have a great relationship with GP really and finds them difficult to talk to.
My youngest doesn't really know them as we've visited less as the years have gone on and my grievances with them have surfaced more.
I know my mum is bored as she says she is. My dad keeps busy with decorating, gardening, washing his car etc
Other set of grandparents don't exist really.

This ^^

DD categorically doesn't want children, but if she were to get pregnant now I'm not prepared to give up work to provide childcare. Been there, done that and got the T-shirt.

Sorty, I disagree with you @uniformotxa

Why did they need to make excuses? Surely they could’ve just said no, they didn’t want to do childcare.

I know of a family where the granny looked after the first and second grandchildren but then, when they decided to have a third, said she’d bloody had enough and wasn’t doing it any more. Providing regular childcare is a heavy burden to put on an older person.

I think wait until you're in your sixties/seventies, retired after working for 40+ years, starting to have health niggles and see how you feel about looking after small children all day for a couple of days a week.

I wouldn't do it and I'm still in my fifties. Just the thought makes me feel exhausted.

If grandparents do occasional emergency childcare and fun grandparent stuff, I think that's absolutely fair.

Yes @DisquietintheRanks, and that's exactly why my statement is factually correct:

Women in their 50s and early 60s would appear to be the first generation of humans to retire in their 60s having worked in paid employment for 40 years whilst also having shouldered an uneven domestic and child rearing burden, and having navigated menopause in the workplace.

'The problem with this is that it can blur the boundaries of the grandparent relationship when they become an unpaid childcare provider and create a lot of resentment on both sides.'

And this - see thread yesterday about grandparent providing childcare but not allowed to give child treats.

Most of the women who worked in paid employment outside the home were working pre marriage and children. Women with young families were largely looking after those families. Some did home working of some sort - weaving, box making etc. Most housemaids were single women.

One of the problems is that if a grandparent does lots of childcare then they might not have the energy or inclination to do the nicer grandparent stuff at weekends, for instance. They need a break. It's sometimes hard to balance childminding and simply being a grandparent. I should know.

They should have started with just no, as they are perfectly entitled to do. Making excuses just meant you continued to ask and not get the hint (or choose to ignore) that the answer was no.

And sorry, third major demographic factor that makes this generation of grandparents unique: c) rise in maternal age (and therefore the age at which women become grandparents), which of course is also linked to both a) women's increased labour market participation and b) life expectancy increases.

Sorry. My post was in answer to @Carsarelife

@Meandfour I'm not sure why the excuses. I think my dad was keen to initially, but my mum said no. My eldest was a really well behaved little girl and would have been easy, my second is a bit more strong willed. Anyway I work and use wraparound care, in the holidays my eldest looks after youngest one or two days, the other days I pay to use a holiday sports club.

Just because you have healthy parents doesnt mean they owe you childcare...
You wanted kids, that means you need to raise them. No need to resent your parents because you assumed they would help you raise your own kids.

@Liorae yes well I asked when she was a baby as I was desperate to get my hair done for 2 hours but I was told no as breastfeeding. I said well I'll give her a feed before I go and it'll be fine but mum was reluctant still. I left it 2 years before asking again, but was told no as in nappies, left it another year, was told no just can't do it, I don't know why.
They were desperate for grandchildren so it did come as a shock to me, but as you say they are entitled to decline.

Today I have to go to physio. It turns out that picking up a the three year old has is repercussions in your late 60s.

Seriously, it's as if some parents in their 30s and 40s refuse to see that their parents are getting older. On the face of it I'm a well and physically able person. But that doesn't mean that my body and mind can take what it used to be able to.

It's fine for parents to say their toddlers exhaust them, but somehow it's "my parents should be doing childcare, because they're only in their 60s and perfectly healthy". And we all know, surely, that looking after someone else's child is much more stressful than looking after your own. It's a big responsibility

Blimey.

Exactly.

Children are exhausting and I wouldn't blame any grandparents for not wanting to take on regular child care duties.

The occasional day out or a bit of babysitting is as much as you should hope for.

I know grandparents who regularly have grandchildren to look after, so parents can both work and they also have their own elderly parents to care for as well.
They are totally worn out and not having much of a retirement themselves.

I would commit to 1/2 day a week if not working and in good health. I also plan to go travelling so it might not be all the time.

If I commit to 2 days a week then I still have 5 days to be spontaneous/ potter around etc. I'm quite looking foward to it but secretly hope that dd sticks to 1/2 kids.