to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

[uniformotxa]

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

@saraclara

That's sad. I can't imagine my own kids ever holding me to ransom like that.

It's too easy isn't it......

I don’t have grandchildren yet but if I ever do I don’t think I will be doing anything regularly. I’ve done my bit. One of my adult children has just moved to a residential placement. I’ve been his full time carer, and for the first time in well over 20 years I have some time to do stuff I’ve not done since before kids, nothing major just things like going for a meal or to the pub! I’m sure I’ll help out but don’t want to be doing regular childcare.

Sounds like you did expect your in laws to provide childcare 🤔

I might change my mind when I’m older, but I don’t see myself offering any regular childcare to my grandchildren in retirement (I have two children now and am in mid 30s). I’m looking forward to other freedoms and experiences. I’d rather support them financially if I can.

It's an interesting discussion, regardless of whether or not the OP had another agenda.

The only moral obligation is for you as parents to bring up your own children

@CinnamonJellyBeans

“F* you mother nature. I'm going on a saga holiday”

i think you should do just that! you might get to see that’s there’s more to life than outdated anthropological theories and that life is short and it’s for living!

@LuckySantangelo35 Funny you should say that: That's where altruism comes in. The ones without their own children still contribute to society, (the pillar of which is children) often helping their own nephews and nieces. The ones who need care receive it. Humans are quite unusual with the care side of things (and not in all societies)

the modern equivalent might be paying high taxation although you have no children who might need education and orthodontics and paying high taxes which can be spent on those who earn less, or need physical care.

When we do all this as a society, why do some GPs get so resentful at being asked to help out?

@Inthesamesinkingboat

im wondering the same
what else do you think they should have been doing?

Tricky, tricky. Possibly not morally poor, but definitely hurtful to your own child. My mum is incredibly helpful and looked after DD three days a week as a 1 year old when we were able to form a bubble (this was a bit much) and then 1 day a week when things went back to normal. She is about to look after DS 2 days a week and probably will do that until he goes to school or her health becomes an issue. I feel very lucky that that’s the case. Saying that, if my mum didn’t take that stance then I would most likely be understanding but quite hurt. Along the lines of, why don’t you want that closeness with my children, why would you rather see them in a nursery from 1, etc.

We have the opposite with my DH’s mum and the kids are definitely nowhere near as close to her. They view her more in line with our friends than a close family member. For example, DD wouldn’t ask her for a snack or to help her with something unless me or DH were both indisposed.

Sadly, your mum will reap what she sows and they most likely won’t be close. I have this situation with my own GP and it genuinely doesn’t occur to me to visit or call them unless it’s a birthday.

I don't consider that there is any obligation of any kind on grandparents to provide childcare.

However, it is very disappointing when your own parents have little to no interest in getting to know your children (their grandchildren). I know this as mine were always like that. Never wanted anything that would take them away from their little bubble.

I don't really think that is fair to see it as their moral obligation. I don't want that responsibility when I retire which I guess sounds selfish but I work with young children and have done since I left uni and had 2 children later than average who are still with us at home . Basically I feel as if I want a complete break from those type of duties when I retire.

Absolutely 100% no. It’s your choice to have kids. You should be responsible enough to plan financially for childcare before you even think about it. Prople over 60 will have spent years raising their own kids and may also be just retiring from a lifetime’s work, they should be free to enjoy their retirement however they wish.

We've been there and raised out own children, which was hard enough. You had children and they are your responsibility not your parents. In an emergency of course I would help out but otherwise I don't have the energy or inclination. YABVU to expect it.

@CinnamonJellyBeans

cos they don’t wanna be tied down with regular child care commitments? When they’ve spent years like that. They want the freedom to go travelling whenever they want.They want to be able to just relax and be responsibility free. Etc etc etc
theres a whole life beyond and outside of looking after kids
can you really not understand?

Along the lines of, why don’t you want that closeness with my children, why would you rather see them in a nursery from 1, etc.
Your choice to put them in a nursery?!

I was lucky with my own kids. I had a generous maternity leave policy. DH earned enough for me to be PT while they were very young. I did not find my job demanding and had loads of energy to do a lot with them and best of all actually enjoy them. I can remember so much from when they were small.

Since then, prices have risen, everyone works harder, not many can afford to take the full maternity leave, SAH or PT. Life is getting so harder for young mums. I feel sad that my kids will find it harder to enjoy their own children and will do everything in my power to help.

I wouldn’t expect any grandparents to have their grandchildren all week every week. If you need full time childcare, I do think you have to pay for it.

However, I do think having them for a couple hours a day/two days a week isn’t a huge ask. Perhaps the odd overnight once a month or something. And obviously help out in emergencies.

I can’t understand grandparents who don’t want to do anything, though. They are also often the ones who got lots of help from their parents when they had kids, which makes me laugh. Happy to take it when it was them but completely unwilling to give back.

My oldest sister became a Grandmother at age 44, her last of four grandchildren was born 15 years later. She cried down the phone to me saying she just didn’t want to provide such a huge level of childcare, she had done 3 full days a week for years . She had developed health issues and was struggling so she said she couldn’t really do it so much anymore and her DIL was vile to her and she hardly ever saw her two youngest grandchildren after that.

I would like to think I can help out somewhat but 3 whole days a week, no way am I doing what my sister did. we lived many miles from all parents so it was irrelevant to us.

I've heard of the Grandmother theory in relation to menopause - as in, human women go through menopause rather than just crawling off and dying when no longer fertile (!) in order to help their offspring with their children. However - despite the fact we are living longer (and therefore expected to work for longer), nature hasn't caught up with society and the average age of menopause hasn't gone up; so given most women will go through menopause around 50-55 and the retirement age (for me at present) is 67, in practice we really can't do what our ancestors may have evolved to do. So yeah theories are one thing, government policy/ economic reality something else

I think there are some ethical considerations but it’s not as straightforward as you make out. My parents and in laws only needed 1 parent working while the other stayed at home to look after the kids. The culture and cost of living has changed so much that that’s not possible or very difficult to achieve today. Where both parents are working full time they need help. It’s a fact. Childcare has become so expensive that often this help cannot be afforded in a formal setting so sometime grandparents step in because they need to (or want to). Here is where the ethical questions lie for society as a whole (not just for grandparents!). We’re expecting the impossible of many families and many families are plunged into poverty with their children and no way out until the kids are older and can look after themselves so the parents can work. Are we as a society happy to leave it this way and let grandparents or foodbanks pick up the slack? or are we going to better support families in other ways?

Neither mine or dp parents were supportive and hardly bothered with the kids- too busy enjoying their retirement and trips abroad to offer any kind of help- emotionally, practically or financially
Now my dc are older teens and adults their grandparents have slowed down and want visits or they to take them out etc. Sadly, the kids have no bond or relationship with them and findspending with them awkward and boring. What’s goes around, comes around

It is a fact universally not acknowledged by parents that other people's children, even the beloved grandsprogs, are exhausting, sticky, often repetitive-to-the-point of terminally boring, expensive and incontinent little dwarves. It's dead weird, because their parents were obviously entrancing.

So, no. No one owes you any favours. We must all (more or less) look after and finance and agonise over our own. (And please spare the poor grandparents mugs-with-their-faces-on, jigsaws of their-art, handprint birthday cards or dribbled-in homemade cookies. One photo a term is sufficient. It doesn't mean they don't love them. They do, but in moderation.)

hmm, I think obligated is a strong word but certainly I couldn't imagine not helping out my children if I was able to.