to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

[uniformotxa]

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

I love the fun days with grandparents - the days out, roast dinners, pub lunches together etc. We dont ask grandparents to do any set childcare as they love their holidays and have their own life (and dont like early mornings after years of working hard). So no, I think grandparents are entitled to enjoy retirement and enjoy seeing the grandchildren on a flexible basis (when it suits us and them). Nursery/holiday clubs are also always going to be available whereas grandparents get ill (especially over the winter) so i’d rather have reliable childcare and fun with the grandparents.

With more and more parents having babies in their forties I think it’s a bit U to expect 80 year olds to do childcare.

@CinnamonJellyBeans

there a a lot of familial models in nature that humans have not followed.
Lions kill all the the cubs when they take over a pride, they don’t want the genes of other males in the pride, and the lionesses will become fertile more quickly if they are not nursing or hunting for the young.

in the primates, chimpanzee and gorilla alpha males are the only males to impregnate the females ( although others will do their best to sneak around and try their luck). Once the alpha is too old to fight for his position, though , he will be driven out of the group or killed outright by his successor.

these are not norms which humanity should follow, imho. ‘ Nous avons changé tout ça ‘.

The only people who are morally obliged to look after children are the parents.

Probably because they didn't much enjoy being a parent, sorry but why do people not realise this?
Not everyone who has children actually likes being a parent, but guess what they slog through because it is their responsibility and they aren't totally fecklesss, you can't take children back once you've got them.
If you're parents aren't interested in looking after your children leave them alone to enjoy their quiet time, they've already done their job.

What does in good health mean though? I’m 42 with the dodgiest knees and back. I work in an extremely busy shop full time and have 4 kids, a dog and 2 cats and am always running around. I’m wrecked! Give me ten years even and I’m going to be worse and while I’ll try to help I’m assuming it’ll have to be ‘on my terms’ or I’ll collapse! I watch gps running around after their grandchildren and I totally feel for them- trying to stop a 4 or 5 year old when you’ve slowed down looks like hell! Personally I think you’ve a moral obligation to give your parents a break after everything they did for you!!

I start on the premise: why do you think your parents owe you childcare?
Did they choose for you to have children?

I won't be providing regular care if my children have children I have done doing my bit now. My mother did her stent years ago and enjoys seeing the children for the odd days out etc but I would never expect nor ask.

I really dispair as a woman at the assumption I will spend all my life responsible for children.

I'm on the fence. I have parents (divorced) who are polar opposites of each other. My dad is very into family and his whole life and self-identity is caught up with spending time with the grandkids, and helping with childcare (not mine, as I don't live close enough, but he absolutely does what he can).
My mum is pretty hands-off and has her own life. She got the local grandchildren Easter eggs this year, but none for mine (we live an hour away). She visits maybe twice a year. My dad is scrupulously fair and visits once a month from the same distance.
I've already decided that when I become a grandparent, I'd like to be a balance of the two. Not as involved as my dad, and not as ambivalent as my mum.
One thing is for sure though, I will NOT be spending all my days childminding. I often see elderly grandparents (well, women) do this and I think 'why'?? What is missing in their own life that they feel they need to do it all again?

What? I have enjoyed bringing up my children and liked being a parent, mostly. Now I want to do something else with my life: travel, write, walk, swim, read, visit my sibling in another country rather than being tied down with more childcare.

@CinnamonJellyBeans you would love my MIL. She has been looking after children for over 60 years now and totally fulfilled all the anthropological theories.

Their job was bringing you up. You're is to bring up your own children. Grandchildren are a pleasure, usually, not a duty.

What annoyed me about my parents (my dad anyway as I lost my mum) was that he wouldnt help me out with childcare and yet when I was a child, I went to my grandparents pretty much all the damn time- like, 4 days every single week. I dont expect him to do that much (I dont expect much at all) but to not ever help out is pretty galling when he benefited from free childcare for my entire childhood.

Yours...

I was looked after by my Grandparents 5 days a week but that was 50 years ago when Grandparents were old and mostly didn't venture far. My Granny had her church group ant that was all, Grandfather pottered in the garden. Grandparents have full social calendars these days so it is very very unreasonable of you to think they are morally wrong not to offer childcare. You had your child knowing how much childcare was going to cost you, you made choices so don't moan now.

Are your parents, who've spent years and years and lots of money getting you to where you are today, OP, entitled now to focus on their own lives and pleasing themselves? Or should they actually devote their whole lives to pleasing you?

They are not the ones who are morally deficient here. Grow up and take responsibility for your own kids.

YABU, selfish and entitled. Their job is to raise you, not the next generation. Pay for your own childcare like the rest of us have to. What is your answer if grandparents live 250 miles away like in our case? Ridiculous.

I won't be shocked @Untrainablegrub - I'll be selling my house, using the money to buy in what I need.

That's what my house is for.

If DS is lucky he'll have an inheritance. If he's not and I or his dad need more help, I'll use it to get a happy last few years in the best care home I can afford if I need to.

No one is going to hold me to ransom - I'll help with grandchildren (if they come along) if and when I want to. If that's not good enough and DS pulls the 'well don't expect help when you're old' he and his partner will just have to wave goodbye to my cash.

And they shouldn't be shocked by that either.

@CinnamonJellyBeans

i know. Thank you. But I meant my other question…

my question was - do you basically think that people are only valid and of any worth if they have a role of caring for others ie children?

how does that work for people who never have kids? Who need care themselves?

where do those people fit with the ‘theory’?

please can you answer that?

Both sets of parents live hours away so it isn't a possibility for us. I think both sets would be willing to watch my son once a week if they lived closer (precious first grandchild) but I wouldn't expect it. I hope if I have grandchildren one day I'll be able to look after mine on a fairly regular basis, once a week seems feasible to me if I was retired.

We originally paid for the childcare which nearly crippled us, then my parents gave up work and had them one day a week reducing my nursery fees. My ILs have never really helped which is why I will care for my parents in their old age but leave my in laws to be as they prefer it. I feel no obligation to them, my choice, as they did to my children, their choice. I am really grateful to my parents but never expected free childcare but love that my children and them are super close because of it

Here, here!

I genuinely don’t see how any reasonable sane person could argue with that

I don’t think they are obligated, but I think it can show in relationships in later life. I adored my grandparents growing up, but as an adult I lost a lot of respect for them when I realised how much they let my parents struggle whilst fawning all over me.

i often see elderly grandparents (well, women) do this and I think 'why'?? What is missing in their own life that they feel they need to do it all again?

I'm guessing that the majority of them.DON'T feel the need to do it all again. But they either feel obliged when their son or daughter asks/expects them to, or as in the case of two of my friends, they do it because if they didn't, they'd rarely if ever see their grandchildren, as the parents never actually visit, and/or the maternal grandparents are the favoured ones so as PILs they have to take what they can get.

Wind them up and watch them go, OP.

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen What you have said is indeed true. However...this has nothing to do with the reasons why human females have been given extra decades of life and so does not go any way to repudiating the grandmother theory.

It's biology, it's genetics, it's the way our particular species, with its hunter-gatherer basis survives best. Not lions, not apes. It works for our biology.

Our upright stance, gave us the ability to evolve from our ancestor apes when India crashed into Asia, setting up climate change that led to loss of trees in Africa. The payback was narrow hips and children born in a high dependency state compared to other mammals. We're not like the giraffe mum on the telly. "Oops what's that that's fallen out my vagina, awwww, it's a baby. Quick baby, I'll give you a quick wash, then you'd better get up and run off with me, a lion is chasing us. Human babies do nothing but lie there and squawk. They spend the next few years with limited mobility, still squawking. You want to go get some berries, bring squawky baby on your back. You want more kids, you have to wait for squawky to stop feeding and crying and start walking. A grand-mother comes in real handy right now. She can watch the kid, help it find food, while you carry on perpetuating your species, which by the way takes a long time to gestate. Her genes for longevity are an evolutionary advantage.

Yeah, we don't live like this now. We have agriculture, nurseries, formula feed We don't need to use our extra decades looking making sure our DNA gets passed on. F* you mother nature. I'm going on a saga holiday!

It sounds like they spent a lot of time with you. What else do you think your parents had a right to expect from your grandparents?