to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

[uniformotxa]

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

This sums up some of the attitudes on mumsnet SOOOOOOOO well!!

No, that's looking at it the wrong way.
Parents are morally obliged to care for their children. They aren't obliged to look after grandchildren, nor are children obliged to look after parents. Grandchild/grandparent care is voluntary and should be reciprocal, not one generation only giving and the other only receiving.

Extremely entitled attitude. Glad you’re not my dc.

We live very very very far from all family so have no help other than the odd ‘night out’ when they come to stay. I don’t think they’re morally obliged to help no. Equally I think if they put in little effort they’re unlikely to be close to the children in question so you reap what you sow imo.

My parents would likely help quite a log of we lived near but I wouldn’t count on them for regular childcare so I could work etc. I might ask for one Friday a month overnight or something along those lines but I wouldn’t ask for two or three days a weeks etc etc unless emergency or one of us was seriously ill or something. I think it’s a bit of a sad truth about our society that we don’t have these traditional family set ups any more… That’s a bigger debate around the social fabric we’re living in but I do think it’s another slap in the face to women who subsequently have even less help than we might have had.

I don’t think there’s a moral obligation. But it’s disappointing if they don’t want to be involved. My parents offered to have DS one day a week for me when I went back to work as they wanted a relationship with him and wanted to help me too. My in laws helped when they could if I needed it but they didn’t want to commit to regular childcare. I never asked any of them for help when I returned to work, my parents approached me, the in laws made their position clear at the outset, which was fine. I will say that I agree with others that you reap what you sow and it’s pretty obvious to all of us who my DS prefers to spend time with.

Yes exactly this! I'm not talking about "childcare" I'm talking about kind of just mucking in a bit- a tiny bit of help makes a HUGE difference to working mums. I had friends whose parents would pop round with a bag of shopping for them when they had a newborn, or would take the toddler a walk in the buggy so they could have a shower or a nap or a GP appointment etc. Pick up one afternoon from school so they could do ANYTHING. I've had both my kids at hospital appointments, funerals, meetings etc over the years as there was just no one to help.

I spent a long time being jealous too, especially when -as you say- people are so ungrateful about it.

I am proud now though that we have done it all ourselves, but I am sad that my kids don't have that big lovely network of relatives who want to spend time with them and are just really interested in what they are doing, as me and my siblings and cousins had when we were kids.

I think that committing to regular childcare to allow someone to work is an absolutely huge commitment and I wouldn’t expect it of any grandparent. If they want to, then good for them. But I certainly don’t think it’s morally bankrupt of them not to.

But I know what you mean in a sense. We get absolutely zero help with childcare from either set of grandparents - I mean really zero, even as one-offs when we’ve been in difficult situations - and I find it very difficult to imagine not wanting to help my DC with my (potential future) DGC at all.

Everyone does know its not either or between offering 5 days a week free childcare and having no involvement or relationship right?

They can see the grandkids with the parents at weekends, one-off babysit or have them for tea occasionally, look after them in school holidays as they get older and are a little less hard work. It's not a crime to not want to commit to looking after multiple young DC every single week. They might want to go on holiday or a cruise and enjoy their retirement while they are in good health. Kids are the cess pit of plagues, I bet many parents would still expect the grandparents to have the kids when they're unwell, which they could pass on to the grandparents which can be really damaging to them.

Jeez I would never expect regular childcare. Nor would I provide it. As hoc is great but you YABU. What if your siblings had kids and to keep things equal the grandparents felt obliged to look after other grand kids. They’d never have time to themselves.
The current situation with expensive childcare/housing etc is shit but that’s the doing of the government.
If I ever have grand kids I’m happy to provide ad hoc babysitting or emergency child care and I feel no guilt about that.
my kids are late teens. Just as they are leaving home, I’m now caring for elderly parents. Selfish though it may be, I’m very tired of caring and want some time to myself. By the time the elderly parents have gone, grandkids may be here and I’m all cared out.

Are you not conveniently ignoring the fact that most posters have said op is unreasonable?

We could put together a similar list made up of all the ridiculous things MILs have said and done but it would be pointless and prove nothing apart from the fact that people having differing boundaries and expectations.

My Mum could have helped and never did. She is pretty much unknown to my children as a result of her lack of interest… and is lonely. I don’t feel sorry for her as she has chosen not to help or be involved. I understand where you are coming from OP!

Sorry, this was to @saraclara

The expectation with so many posts here is that parents live close to their adult children.

Many professional people have left university and moved a long way from their parents.

My parents lived 300 miles away and my in laws 250 miles away.

My parents would look after our children for a couple of days (we'd take them to their house) or very occasionally come to ours (like once every few years.)

Now, my adult children live 70 and 45 miles away. Too far to pop round with shopping or do any impromptu childcare (not that they have kids yet.)

I'd actually like to help out more if the time comes (not on set days of the week) but the distance makes it impossible.

It's so funny all the people trotting out the "it takes a village" line. It only applies when they feel entitled to something. The rest of the time it's don't come near my baby, don't you dare tell my precious child not to throw a house brick at you.

I disagree. Grandparents have done all you’re doing in their time, for you. Grandchildren should be for fun times and bonding, not another responsibility to take on later in life. If they want to take on “childcare” it’s a bonus.

I don’t receive any child care from family, I pay for it. My MIL is great and comes and stays with us about once a month and does basically a whole weekend of child care which is nice.

People are choosing to have children much later in life than in previous generations. I’m 35 and pregnant with my second, making my parents in their late 60s. If my daughters follow suit, I’ll be 70 by the time they have kids. I feel tired enough now taking care of my own childrens, no idea how I would feel at 70!

I think all these grandparents who don’t want to help out with grandchildren because they didn’t decide to have them should not be shocked when no one’s helping them out in old age because no one’s asked for that responsibility either.

This!!!!! In spades!

This sums MN attitudes completely. It's ridiculous.

My in-laws have never provided any regular form of childcare even though they were perfectly fit & healthy enough to do so. (They did for his sister after saying they never would)
One year they gave us season tickets to a local theatre for Christmas with the promise of sitting so we could attend - they would call & say you are going to the theatre on Wednesday as I can sit for you then (I started work at 8am & it was so impractical to go out mid week). The following year we expressly said no tickets as we would like to go out with friends instead - no sitting available at all for the next 2/3 years.
My parents lived a 6 hr drive away at the time, so not an option.

I’ve had zero help whatsoever from DP despite them being healthy and retired. Our wraparound care cripples us but there’s little we can do but pay it. I want to help my kids as much as possible but have made it clear that when the time comes there will be boundaries and conditions - I won’t just be put upon 5 days a week for indefinite. There’s a balance to be had.

By the time my kids had kids the retirement age will have moved to 74!!! I will have to be working up to 74 if I don't plan for an earlier retirement. I mean at that point I'll probably be exhausted and at least deserve to take a break for some time, not to jump straight into looking after my grandkids. It shouldn't be an obligation.

I wouldn’t ask my parents to do anything regular because my mum is 78 and dad is 81, both look in their 60s and are very healthy but they do get tired easily plus I never felt it was fair to tie them down to anything regular, much as they adore their grandchildren. They’re always more than happy to do school pick ups/dinner and any care we need but I don’t think they’d be keen to do anything set and regular and I don’t think it would be fair to ask. They have already brought their children up and been stuck in work and school routines - now is the time for them to be free to do things together and also enjoy the fun side of their grandchildren.

I look after my best friend’s 2 year old 2 days a week, sometimes 3, and have been since she was 6 months old. It’s fun but it’s exhausting. I’m 11 years older than I was when I was used to that stage and I definitely get tired more quickly. Plus having to get up early in the holidays for her arriving and being tied down to those days makes me realise what it would be like for grandparents. she goes to her grandparents for the remaining days in the week but they’ve said they’re struggling with arthritis and tiredness plus they want to enjoy having their retirement while they’re still able to do things.

It is morally poor to make the decision to have children and then expect people, including your parents, to give up significant amount of their time, and be restricted by that timetable to provide free childcare.

Will you look after your parents in your home if they need it?
Also if you can’t afford children don’t have them.