to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

[uniformotxa]

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

No your parents don’t owe you any childcare help it was your decision to have children therefore it’s your responsibility to care for them. I say that as someone with 4 children who has no family childcare help whatsoever not even the odd day here and there for just one of them. But having experienced a complete lack of help I know for sure I will absolutely help my children by providing them childcare when they need it. I do think it’s shitty how little help people want to give and I don’t want my children to experience that too

Sorry no. It has been known for years how much childcare costs. These are things that need to be factored in when you decide to have children. Don't have children but have many nieces and nephews and neither have been looked after every week by Grandparents on either side of family. My own parents are in their early 70s both still work only recently moved to part time. The are not physically able to look after a couple of kids every week. yes they look after some evenings when parents go out and have stepped in in emergencies same as i have however my siblings have paid for proper childcare every week. I ahve a few friends that i am have to say take the piss. Tow i know of live in the city and their parents live 2 hour drive away ( both parents in 70s retired father has heart problems and mother has problems balancing so has fallen a good few times)they make them drive up nearly every day to mind children or collect from school or crèche , that is shocking. They all earn very high salaries, can well afford childcare. One actually made her mother travel the country and sit with the baby while she went to meetings as she was breastfeeding - i was like WTF ?? They regularly bring them on hols too so they can babysit the children. Another friend made her mother change the dates of a holiday she booked as she couldn't or wouldn't get childcare. People are working longer and longer now. They have done their job rearing their children the are not their for unpaid babysitting. They are there for days out, birthday party's xmas extc to share in the moments of their GC and they enjoy their lives, as they have damn well worked hard enough for it, when they retire

Yabu. The cultures you are referring too often expect children to live in a multi generational household (or at least close by) so all burdens can be shared that includes finances, cooking, cleaning, childcare and caring for the elderly. They aren't so one-sided that they will take care of grandkids and expect nothing back, it's based on a reciprocal notion. So you can't unstick 3 hours away and expect childcare or even if you're down the road expect it if you aren't going to help when parents get sick or elderly.

It's very dependant on your culture. In some cultures, grandparents absolutely take an integral role in caring for their grandchildren but in return, they will be more involved in how they should be brought up. Also in these cultures it's very much expected that children look after their elderly parents. I think a 2 way relationship like this is lovely but many British people want the childcare without the extra caveats and responsibilities that come with it so paying childcare is preferable. You can't expect grandparents to put in more work and not receive any support themselves when they need it. I don't think that's a fair balance.

I don't really see where the 'moral obligation' comes in. If there was some reciprocal arrangement like you are going to care for them in their old age by taking them into your home, etc. then yes.

Thanks for your feedback 😁

My parents had my eldest for two days a week regularly straight after retirement. It was almost a semi retirement for them. Their rules about what they did and we gave them money for travel and spends to do things with her. If they wanted to go on holiday in term time, we facilitated that without complaint. They stopped for a year when I was on mat leave for 18 months and they gave us plenty of warning when they wanted to stop when my youngest started 5 days of pre-school at age 4.

They now help out in school holidays - usually only for a day or two per holiday. They have them for longer at their house over the summer. We take them there and bring them back.

My in-laws also help out for maybe 4-5 days a year. But in all instances we take the kids to their houses and give them free reign over activities.

Moral obligation, no.

Would I be upset if they didn't want to be involved, yes.

My parents nor my in-laws are local. If they were local, I'd probably ask for odd bits of babysitting more frequently to be able to go out.

“Morally wrong”, hilarious. Your choice to reproduce, no one else should be taking responsibility for that but you

@SchoolTripDrama how on earth is it selfish? They aren’t her children. I doubt she was involved in discussing their conception and I certainly hope she wasn’t there during it!

My parents helped me enormously with my kids. When I became a single parent they did the school runs. My oldest 3 have a very close relationship with my parents.
My youngest is a lot younger than my older 3. My parents did help but not on a regular basis as my parents were older by then, I got a childminder. Before my youngest was born mil said she wouldn't be helping with childcare as she had done her child rearing, however, that changed when her daughter had a baby a few years later!
I have always helped with my grandchildren as much as possible. The oldest 2 even lived with me three times when they were younger, for 6 months each time. I worked full time so couldn't commit to regular school runs etc.
Last year my oldest asked me to look after her baby every Sunday when she went back to work. At that time I was still a full time teacher. And a carer for my parents! I didn't want to let her down so I said I'd have him on the Sunday morning but her hubby would have to get him as soon as he finished football training.
(I then got diagnosed with St4 bowel cancer so the Sunday plans changed. I've been off sick since June, & once chemo finished I started having him all day every other Sunday.)
If I hadn't been working I probably would have committed to helping my daughters with childcare more often.

Well I certainly wouldn't be held to ransom by my DS and his (future) partner/wife like that. My view would be that I'd be able to have a lovely care home as the inheritance due to DS will be spent on that...."silver lining and all that"

But threats aside...

My friend looks after her DGS once a week. She travels 50 miles each way to do so as her DS and DDiL work local to where they live. She's done this for two and a half years now. But she won't be offering the same to any future grandkids without a lot of thought on her part and the ability to say 'I've had enough'.

1. She's now heading towards 63 years old and is feeling exhausted. She works part time (so slightly different I know from full retirement) but a full on, fast paced toddler is tiring even one day a week, day in, day out.

2. She can't accept an impromptu invitation for a lunch or coffee meet up on that day each week from her friends in her own town as she's not there. If she's given notice she may be able to arrange for either of the parents to get time off. Same goes for long weekends away.

3. Similarly with appointments, she has to wait to find out if the parents can get time off if a medical appointment turns up for the normal baby sitting day. She's had to wait for a medical test recently as neither of them could get a day off and she had a clash so had to change the appointment.

4. It's costing her money. Let's be honest. She's paying for 100 miles of fuel each week on a part time salary. She certainly won't be able to afford that when she retires so her DS/DDiL will have to bring any GC to her.

She's said she'll be perfectly fine having DGS (and future GC) for a couple of weeks in the summer, for odd weekends or evenings if they need a break. But by the time she retires at 67 years old she doesn't want to be so committed with her time. Luckily her DS and his wife have been grateful for these years and are in a better position to pay for childcare if they need it in the future now.

"Along with my dad (mum can’t due to hours in work) my dad quite literally dropped a day in work to have my son and both my parents would do absolutely anything to help! My mum has taken annual leave so I didn’t have to when family who usually have him have been on holiday or sick!"

Which is great. But the OP hasn't come back to say if CC would be falling to one person. I need a chest X-ray, I'm starting to suffer more with chest infections. I can't go this week because of the school holidays. I'm finding that were previously I'd be fine once I had one day of antibiotics, now I'm rough for three days. My DD wants to switch jobs, a clinic that I attend is only on a Tuesday, it is going to be stressful getting to the school afterwards on time, especially if I need bloods doing. If I took a holiday, it would have to fall in with my DD, or my eldest (who might be able to cover). I've booked a concert in December, but it might work out that the timing will be tight. There's been lots that I've missed because I haven't got childcare😂It's probably different if you are with your GC, GF, but I'm widowed. I'd love to be doing yoga, mediation etc, but it's on when I've got my GC. Committing to childcare for ten years (until high school) is a massive ask, even one day a week, which is what the OP wants.

You’ve misunderstood. The “gift of childcare” I speak of is FROM the grandparents, not me gifting them the wonder of having access to my children 🙄

Offering someone childcare is a huge gift. And I’m naffed off that my parent’s own parents gave them that gift, but my parent’s won’t pass it on to me.

She said half a day a week, not half a week.

I don’t have kids but my mum didn’t do that much for my nieces and nephews really. She loved them dearly but she’d already had her child rearing years so just did the occasional babysitting

Things are different now. Women used to retire earlier and many would throw themselves straight into being unpaid carers for elderly relatives and grandchildren. Now it's "equal" (though women are still the ones rushing about doing the bulk of relative care.)

My DF and his wife retired together. DF said that now he is retired there's no way he is having screaming children running around his house. His wife absolutely would have taken on childcare if it had just been her for five years.

@Lenor but why should they? They don't owe it to you! It was your grandparents choice to care for you the same as it is your parents choice not to care for your children.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t.

You'd feel more strongly than that your parents were morally dire?
How entitled are you? 😂

Be grateful that your parents raised YOU & stop being such a CF.
They didn't conceive your children, that was your choice entirely.
Why do you think your parents owe you free labour instead of enjoying their hard-earned retirement?

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more.
Maybe you ought to blame your parents for raising you in the UK too. What bastards. How much pulling together have you offered your folks? Did you help them raise any of your siblings?
Are you currently being a source of reliable help to your parents by spending one day a week doing their housework or DIY for them?

I suspect this thread is frothbait. God help your parents otherwise.

Well I’ve written my opinion on why in my comment, if you don’t agree that’s fine 🤷🏼‍♀️

@Ponoka7 I see where your coming from however my nan for example has lots of appointments if it clashes with a day she has my son I have told her she goes to her appointment if I have to take parental leave that's not her problem. Same goes for all of them if they can't cover it or have plans or something comes up then that's on me and dad to sort and not there problem. Maybe that's the difference. One set of grandparents goes on holiday for 4 weeks at a time twice a year across Easter usually one of them is! We muddle on with our own annual leave and other family/ unpaid leave. Holiday clubs when he starts school properly. I'm lucky that my work are very accommodating with me and let me work back hours where I can etc too.

My friends Mum is late 60s and has done school runs daily since the 80s. First her kids, then she had a late in age pregnancy so started again with another kid, then when he didn't need walking to school she started with the grandkids, and is still going.

Fuck that!

I'll help adhoc days, I'll do emergency days and occasional holidays. But my retirement is for DH and I to spend time together. Working shifts etc means we don't get much time together and had we had our kids within 2 years of getting together as we married quickly. I want to holiday when I want, do what I want etc without being tied to childcare.

@uniformotxa
Following your argument, I assume that means you plan to provide care for your parents, have them move in with you . If it's moral obligation they hand out with childcare for DGC then it's moral obligation you help out with your care.

It's not.

People have to work 50 odd years and look forward to retiring and having freedom to come and go once they no longer work

My DGParents never did regular childcare for me nor babysat
My parents help out for the odd week here and there during school holidays for mine. I'd never expect them to commit to a regular day a week childcare for me. They'd never be able to grab those last minute cheap holiday deals and enjoy the twilight years of their lives before they get too frail and old. They deserve it.

If some grandparents offer to help out regularly that's very kind of them but no one should expect it, it's so much harder to physically manage lively toddlers, babies and young children when your older and less mobile.

I’m from one of these cultures where it is normal for grandparents to help. They tend to want to be a part of their grandchildren’s lives as family is important. My own grandparents were very involved in my childhood and losing one of them has been like losing a parent. I’m eternally grateful for their love. I was close to my great grandmothers also. I know there are good valid reasons why grandparents can’t help sometimes, but honestly both grandchildren and grandparents miss out on an incredible
bond when grandparents don’t want to be very involved (by choice). My in laws are British and see this very differently. I understand but I wish they had a stronger relationship with the kids.

Many of us are much older when we have our children than in previous generations. Both sets of grandparents were able to help in our case initially but they soon because disabled themselves and the care requests shifted the other way. Now our children are old enough not to need day to day care but we don’t have anyone for weekends away etc. Which is fine, we either take it in turns or go as a family.

Ultimately we may be in same position ourselves. I like to think I’d help with emergency and occasional care but providing full time care as a 70 year old to a toddler would likely be too much!

Being part of your grandchildren's lives and offering childcare are two totally separate things.

If grandparents actually want to commit to weekly childcare then that is fine but no grandparent has a moral obligation to provide childcare. You cannot compare grandparents looking after their grandchildren to professional childcare as professional childcare is a regular contractual agreement where everyone knows where they stand.

In my experience, grandparents can find the rigidity of committing to, for example, 2 days per week childcare exhausting and puts a strain on what should be a lovely relationship with grandchildren. If grandparents are fit and healthy they may want to enjoy several holidays each year or cancel childcare at the last minute for more attractive plans. If grandparents develop ill health then childcare can get cancelled at short notice.

The worry is that with a decline in childcare spaces (which is a growing problem in my area) more and more grandparents will feel under pressure to provide childcare.