to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

[uniformotxa]

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

But you don’t need to have regular child care to have a close relationship with your grandparents. Although what you describe is usual in parts and other parts unusual. For example the taking your grannies with you every time you go away for a weekend is a very unusual thing and I’m not sure if it’s particularly healthy.

I for one would hate it if my husband wished his grannies to come with us every time we had a weekend away and I certainly don’t want my friends grannies fronting up when I go for a weekend away with them. And I’m sure they same applies back , I mean it’s great it works for you and you take your grannies everywhere but it wouldn’t be the same for most others.

@Littleroseseverywhere I mean I'm a single parent of 2 tween girls and most holidays are based on 2 adults + 2 kids so I usually invite one of them along. It's just a "girly" city break away to Benidorm or Rome or Paris. If I had a husband or partner it would be different!

I find MN very hypocritical on this, when I tell people I have zero help from my family they seem utterly shocked that my family wouldn’t help but threads like this you get told your kids your responsibility and shouldn’t expect any help 🤦‍♀️

I don't understand why you thought your parents would be interested in being active grandparents when they clearly weren't interested in being active parents?

I tend to agree with you op.
I’m a firm believer in reaping what you sow. My ex in-laws did sweet FA. They were all for coming to my house and sitting there expecting to be waited on hand and foot but never actually helped out other than babysitting occasionally in return for favours. Looking back fil retired at the age I am now and I work full time. I had to stop working as the childcare was so expensive back then.
My dcs don’t bother at all with them now.
When I separated from my ex they refused point blank to help out in any way shape or form.

I think they’re morally obliged to - this appears to be a minority view but I’m interested to see what the opinion would be in a non-Western, non-individualist culture.
It ties in with attitude to elders as well-some other cultures wouldn’t dream of putting an elderly person in a home and would find that morally wrong.

Bollocks

I had my kids in 1990s. No help from my parents. Like most professional people I had to live where jobs are and that meant I was 200 miles from my parents and 400 miles for PIL. I wasn’t unique in my friendship circle- all pretty normal. I did not kick my kids out, wtf, which parents EVER kicked a pre school child outside and went off to work all day or even a school age kid. Sure, when I was about 8 or so my elder brothers and I let ourselves in as latch key kids for an hour till mum got home. I expect that, outside of the hyper vigilant MN arena most parent still would do that when needed. Prior to that we were fortunate that my mum knew headteachers of schools well, and we were allowed to stay in library quietly reading till my parents could pick me up

we did not go to grandparents regularly - occasional overnights mostly at weekends

Do stop with the “pity me, our generation has it tougher, you lot had it easier”Child care has always, always, been a struggle and now, as it has been for literally hundreds of years for working women, it is a constant complete expensive juggle, hoping the house of cards you’ve arranged doesn’t come tumbling down .

I agree with you OP, but I know ours isn’t a popular opinion. I think I feel extra salty because my parents had an enormous amount of help from their own parents. I spent an awful lot of time with my grandparents as a child and my parents regularly had week-long holidays whilst my grandparents looked after the four of us.

My husband and I had absolutely no help with our first two, but we thought this was down to lock downs and our family made a huge fuss of how much they wanted to help but couldn’t. Then lock downs ended, but they wanted to be cautious which we found totally understandable.

Then we very unexpectedly conceived a 3rd child (whilst on birth control, and following fertility issues with our first two) and ended up with 3 children in 3.5 years. Now no one helps, both of my young and healthy parents have no interest in sharing the incredible gift of childcare their parents shared with them. I find it really upsetting.

I saw something the other day about “the parents who didn’t want to parent have become the grandparents who don’t want to grandparent” and I think it’s very true. My parents don’t have any idea how isolating and relentless parenting can be, because they’ve never really done it.

I am from a non-Western, non individualist culture, and have posted upthread that I disagree with the OP.

My in-laws provided 24/7 childcare for my sister in law. In return, they live with her and she takes care of all their expenses. She likes it, but many of my friends have the same arrangement and hate it.

My mother has not provided regular childcare for me, but I plan to move her into my house when she ages.

Look, I think many of us sympathise with generational inequality - my dad worked 33 years, my mum worked 12 years and both retired at 55, having paid off the mortgage a decade earlier and bought a second home. They're living on savings which pay for a very nice lifestyle, luxury travel and purchasing additional NI credits to get the full state pensions. My dad has an excellent occupational pension as well.

I imagine the state pension age will be into the 70s by the time I retire, my household income is good but not good enough to save to allow me to retire earlier, I'm mentally and physically unwell and life feels like an unrelenting slog most of the time.

But my parents don't owe me anything just because they were born at a more fortunate time. And had I had kids, it wouldn't somehow be their bloody job to raise them.

I find parental entitlement on both sides incredibly irritating. I'm childless and so many parents seem to me to be up their own backsides because they have kids. I also have no relationship with my parents due to childhood abuse, and so many parents seem to be incredibly entitled towards their own parents, who loved them and provided a nice childhood for them - and now only wish for a bit of a rest. My parents couldn't even raise me properly, I'd have been grateful just for that!

I'm not looking forward to retirement when I am 67 years old and expected to provide regular childcare for my grandchildren to all my children and also give money to them (another thread) to help out and make their lives easier. If I choose to spend my money and time on travelling/holidays/home renovation/meals out - then according to some posters, I am selfish or morally wrong for not helping out my children. I now question whether or when I would be allowed to have my own free time or spend money on treats for myself - things that I gave up willingly when I brought up my own DC without any help from any of my parents or in-laws.

I have no issues providing emergency childcare and love to spend quality ad-hoc days out with the gc or babysit one evening now and again to allow my DC to go on date nights etc. Equally, if my DC were financially struggling, I would give them some cash to help out. But I despair that even in my DC's adulthood, I would be expected to support them for regular childcare for their dc and financial handouts.

It’s their prerogative, they’re my children and it’s lovely when they visit grandparents but I don’t expect a constant free baby sitting service.

Of three sets of grandparents, one set happily take children over night and for days out as they enjoy it.

One will baby sit at our house if needed

One is not childcare material although they enjoy spending time with them when we are there.

I think me & my siblings have been incredibly lucky as our mum took early retirement to look after grandkids ( 3 all born same year). This was her choice and we are incredibly grateful as it helped massively with childcare costs. They are all 4 now and have a wonderful relationship with GP's and also each other.

We've never had any angst over this. Our parents are only in their 50s and all work. Absolutely no way would any of them be able to stop work to care for our dc so we never expected it.

My parents had no childcare help when raising us and now they go above and beyond helping with their GC’s. It’s their choice and when the time comes for them to take a step back then my siblings and I would respect their decision. They go on holiday when it suits them, they aren’t held to ransom to organise their lives around looking after GC’s. They enjoy it and probably have more time to do more with their GC’s than us growing up and get the luxury of sending them home when it suits.

On one hand, it's lovely if grandparents are able and willing to help out with childcare. However, their time is theirs to spend however they like and there is no obligation to provide any childcare regardless of how much free time they have. Personally I would want to help my children in whatever way I could but not everyone feel that way.

I grew up listening to my mum telling me how she didn't understand women who looked after their grandchildren. As far as she was concerned, once you'd raised your own children then you were done. Obviously I grew up with absolutely no expectations of any help what so ever!

Fast forward to when my mum actually became a grandparent and now all I hear is moaning about how infrequently she sees her grandchildren (she lives several hours away and has been talking about moving closer for years but nothing ever materialises).

DH & I are adamant that we will help our children with childcare (if they have children) as much as possible (if we're able to) as we know what it's like to not have any support at all.

My SIL has 12 grandchildren in 4 families. She's nearly 70. How much childcare should she be morally obliged to give her grandchildren do you think? She was a SAHM, who did everything for her husband and children with zero help from anyone.

When they’re on holiday or have appointments or their own plans, how do you cover the childcare? Asking as my SIL has asked the in laws to do 2 days a week childcare and her mum is doing 2 days. As they have no nursery, I have no idea how they will cover all the holidays with just their A/L.

Massive romanticisation of other cultures on MN, as always, but only when it suits.

A further complication arises as more grandchildren are born, we quite often see posts on here from mums aggrieved because their mum or MIL provide childcare for other grandchildren but not theirs.

This causes ructions in our family.

My MIL retired to look after DSS1. She did 3 days and his other grandmother did 2.

My ex-SIL is mortally offended that she wouldn’t have her DC three days when they were tiny totally refused to acknowledge that DH being widowed young unexpectedly (hence the two grannies pitching in so much) and MIL being 22 years younger and having our late FIL around to help made the situation somewhat different…

People always expect granny to help out. I never see the same expectations on grandpas.

if there was a single grandpa enjoying his retirement playing golf I don’t think people would be wailing that he should be providing childcare. So good on women who don’t feel obliged to either.

In other cultures adult children help out their parents with practical things such as decorating or gardening or whatever.

I think a lot of people who expect parents to mind kids don't do anything in return.

Having said that I'd help my kids out but it would depend. I wouldn't really want to unless the kids were a bit older and nice kids. Young kids are hard work

I’ve just worked this out and my parents have 15 grandchildren aged 13-3 months across 2 different cities in 8 different schools / pre schools.
Even commiting to school runs would be impossible!

I don't think they owe it but equally I don't think they can get annoyed we don't visit very often. We have limited time with dc in the week due to work so I don't want to spend my weekend bouncing from grandparent to grandparent. I imagine I would help out if I was to have grandchildren but I'm not sure exactly what that would look like. I know my mum would have helped if she lived near as my nan helped me. My MIL and her husband are great at offering days out and clearly enjoy DGC but FIL and his wife made it clear that an hour was too much for them so we don't bother asking them

"Sharing the incredible gift of childcare"

Are you for real? Childcare is boring and hard work, its definitely not incredible or a gift!