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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think its morally poor not to provide ANY childcare whatsoever as a grandparent, if you are retired and in good health?

957 replies

uniformotxa · 13/04/2023 11:21

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

OP posts:
Canibuyahouse · 13/04/2023 13:33

I work with someone who gladly looks after her dc she’d do it every day if she could she’s said that . She takes annual leave to look after grandchild and has even reduced her hours to help

This is the difference in generations. Currently most people needing help (especially single parents) can't afford to reduce their hours to look after their own children let alone grandchildren

Mangogogogo · 13/04/2023 13:34

I had my kids young so I assume I’ll still be working when they pop their own out. My own mother still works but she’s always there when I need her, as my gran was for her. So I will try my hardest too and help my kids out.

my kids have gained so much from spending time with them. They barely see their other grandparents and they moan they don’t really know them well. I meannnn use your brain

Badbudgeter · 13/04/2023 13:34

Grandparents not babysitting is fine. However I won’t feel obligated to help them out when they are developing care needs either. My mum says she will come and live with me once my children have left home. Hard no from me on that one. I will be 55 when my youngest will be 20. I plan on following my Mums example and enjoying myself/ travelling. I’ll probably downsize and fund deposits for first houses for my dc so bc won’t have the space anyway.

Dodgeitornot · 13/04/2023 13:36

No. This is a hill I'm willing to die on. I'm nowhere near grandparent age but you cannot have kids and expect childcare from anyone. Sorry. It's great when people can, and it's a shame we've got to this stage as society, but that's not for grandparents to fix.

RosesAndHellebores · 13/04/2023 13:37

Well, I'm nearly 63; DH nearly 62. We are still working full time. DS is married, DD still at home. Between them they could have 4 plus dc and any contribution will have to be equal.

I imagine we will be late 60s before we have grandchildren. We will both have worked for nearly 40 years, we have funded DC's school fees and university costs (quite rightly). They have both had very good starts which includes help buying property. We are very involved with our DC and their partners and hope to be with our grandchildren if/when they arrive.

There will be no regular, formal childcare offered however. Occasional babysitting, help in an emergency but apart from that I shall not be providing childcare. DH and I will be having some long overdue time to pursue interests and travel whilst we are well enough and young enough.

I would be so very disappointed if I thought I had brought up my children to be so entitled they thought they could demand regular childcare on moral grounds because that's what grandparents are for.

LightDrizzle · 13/04/2023 13:37

I think I’d be disappointed if grandparents were uninterested in their grandchildren, but luckily that doesn’t seem to be the case here. It’s totally different to commit to regular childcare and I think that is an unreasonable expectation.

A further complication arises as more grandchildren are born, we quite often see posts on here from mums aggrieved because their mum or MIL provide childcare for other grandchildren but not theirs. Where does it stop? At 67 must they provide full days of care for a succession of pre-schoolers for 15 years? - More than one at a time? Curtailing travel opportunities they didn’t have during their own parenting years? It’s a big ask.

Small children are very tiring and more tiring when they are not yours and you don’t have the ultimate authority and confidence that parents do. When your own child is being a twat, at least you don’t have to worry about them going home to their parents and saying they don’t like you anymore, you’re mean, and having to explain over the phone, after an exhausting day, that you cut short a park visit because DGD2 wouldn’t listen about trying to get on a moving roundabout with teenagers on it and she had a mega strop…

raincamepouringdown · 13/04/2023 13:38

kitsuneghost · 13/04/2023 12:41

How many times do you see women chastised for wanting to have children in their late 50s because they would be 'too old' to cope with young kids.
Then we deem it OK to want them to look after their grandkids who often have special needs.

OMG, yes!

Men are chastised, of course, but women certainly are!

ShortDaysLongNights · 13/04/2023 13:40

I am with you on this one. We live a long way from one set of parents, but not so far from the other. I would love just the voluntary offer of a couple of evenings (not even overnight) of babysitting a year. Or taking the kids out for an afternoon.
Icing on the cake was a recent visit to my family where they didn't even consider playing with the kids for 5 minutes, read a bedtime story, etc. Granted, they did come to the playground once, but ended up sitting on a sunny bench in the park whilst I was chasing after the kids. Then complained how tired they were.
No, they don't owe me anything, but if I spend hundreds per trip to see them, a little bit of engagement with the only grandchildren wouldn't hurt.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 13/04/2023 13:40

Ultimately the grandchildren exist because the grandparents had children of their own so they are at least as equally responsible as the parents are.

Huh?!

Littleroseseverywhere · 13/04/2023 13:40

What else do you feel they are morally obliged to give you op? Is it just free child care? Or do you feel they should clean your house if you are too busy so you don’t need to pay a cleaner? Buy you take aways if you don’t have time to cook? Provide you with a car to save you shelling out? Pay your mortgage so you don’t have to spend so much? Walk your dog so you don’t need to spend on a dog walker? Do your weekly shop so you don’t need to pay delivery charges?

do share with us just how much you feel you’re entitled to?

Whiteroomjoy · 13/04/2023 13:40

🤣🤣🤣🤦‍♀️🤯
Op, it’s one thing parenting when you are young, they’re your kids and you have to look after them

its entirely another thing for a “retired” grandparent. People retire for a reason.

  • Mostly it’s because they’re feeling knackered and worn out from working , (mentally if not physically),
  • a significant majority of everyone over 50 has an increasing list of physical issues , by age 60-65, 52% will have at least one long term health condition (ONS Data).
  • some who have retired healthy but early, and can afford to do so, are able to afford to do so becuase they have done pretty demanding jobs that have meant their work life balance has been shot to pieces for years. They retire to actually enjoy life while they are still healthy and able to. They know by 65 plus they will start to see health issues probably and want to make up for lost time
  • people who retire do not want to work anymore. That includes working as a childminder on a regular basis. A lot would infinitely prefer to continue in their old job earning a decent wage, getting holidays they can decide when to take, and paying into a pension, than slogging away unpaid doing a job , with holidays you have to continually negotiate with advance notice, a lack of flexibility and work that’s way harder 🤦‍♀️

all of these reasons are not conducive with child rearing (“minding”🙄🤣). You need energy, physical fitness and flexibility (to get on floor etc) and a huge amount of patience . When you have just retired and are looking forward to “me time” for the first time in your life having worked so hard for it, the last thing a lot of people want is being volunteered for childcare on a regular basis .

contrary to what you may thing OP, childcare has always been expensive and what you’re describing is not new. I had 2 children in 1990s. I worked part time and husband full time. ALL my wage, and I did a fairly high level professional job that was higher paid than average full time salary, all of it went on those 3 days of childcare. There were no subsidies or government support even for over 3s or 4s. Ok, towards the end they introduce child care vouchers that gave you some tax off, in registered nurseries that was it. And there weren’t even nurseries readily available outside of main towns. You paid the full costs until your child went to school. And then a lot of schools didn’t have after school clubs or breakfast clubs so you needed a childminder for that too. My parents lived too far away to even ask, but I knew my dad would be useless and my mum had health condition that she retired at 55 from. I would never have asked them other than emergency even if they lived up the road.

the pre school years, imho, are the most expensive and difficult to manage financially. Wages haven’t matured in careers, often there maternity leave and part time periods. We , like most people I knew, went into debt at times. BUT: once kids are past that age things gradually get better. Generations of parents have just had to suck this up and deal with it. Working mothers existed before the 1950s ideal of housewife SAHM, and they always had to juggle and often pay informally for childcare. mothers were younger then and grandmothers were working themselves. No, women didn’t have great rewarding careers, they slogged away at the few jobs that working mums were still “allowed” to do such as nursing, teaching, cleaning, factory work , shift work etc.

If my kids have kids, the chances are I will be living too far away anyway. But I will offer “emergency” care especially as kids get to early years school. But there is absolutely no way , hell will freeze over, that I’d do it on a regular basis. I’m am not particularly interested in babies, love kids when they get to toddler age though. But I don’t love toddlers enough to put myself forwards to a hard labour regime of 7:30am to 6pm wrap around care 2-3 days per week, so parents can afford a holiday or a new car. Or even a mortgage on their home- I’d rather give some money towards helping them out if really needed.

I am not morally lacking. I am just not that into your baby. Been there, seen it, done it. Love my kids but no way would I do it again and I don’t really know how I did do it at the time. If you as parent, be to point of a baby sat on your knee for you to discover that you can’t afford, or haven’t sorted logisitcs of childcare out, then more fool you.

There are some very maternal or paternal grandparents who will agree to this arrangements, others that will offer and be delighted. We are all different. It doesn’t make some of us morally lacking or others intrinsically moral - it just makes us all different . Others parents support their adult children in different ways than providing the grunge of childcare day in day out, week after week, year after year.

when you are 60 you can look back on your post and have a good embarrassed laugh at your entitlement.

ktitten · 13/04/2023 13:41

I think it's up to individual grandparents and they don't have to.

BUT what I will say is that my grandparents (both sets) provided regular childcare for me and my sibling when we were kids so my single parent mum could work shifts and they are really "reaping the benefits" now. I am along there all the time, bringing them in dinners and cleaning their windows, taking my grannies out for coffees and lunches etc. If I'm having a weekend away one of them is always invited to tag along. My brother drops everything if one of them has a fall, cuts their grass regularly, takes my grandads out for pints or for a game of pool. Their lives are definitely enriched by having such close relationships to their grandchildren and it's for that reason that I'll definitely be doing it when my own children have kids.

I do think people should consider this aspect more before they write off helping...

Dowellif · 13/04/2023 13:41

Is that you, Julia?

WhoLetTheSprogsOut · 13/04/2023 13:42

My children are 5 and 7. This week my MIL looked after them both for the first time (has looked after one on their own a handful of times), and my parents looked after one on one day last week. By this I mean they were taken out for approx 5 hours while DH & I worked. They've also never slept over at grandparents without us being there. I know a lot of people who live close to their parents use them for regular childcare but I don't ever think it should be a given, or something you burden them with unless they specifically and genuinely want to do it.

Dreamstate · 13/04/2023 13:42

Do you think OP its morally wrong to have children if you cannot afford to have them and look after them?

Thinkingaloudcloud · 13/04/2023 13:42

I did not live near enough to any family but would have been amazing to feel I would have help in an emergency.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 13/04/2023 13:43

They spent their parenting years raising you.

It was your choice to have children.

Why would you expect them to do it all again? For free?

Pay for childcare.

annonymousse · 13/04/2023 13:44

@CandleInTheStorm

The point was, people saying "but they've done their child rearing" don't take into account how much help they had from either their own family or kicking the kids out all day. A little empathy wouldn't go amiss for today's family.

You've missed a generation. You describe the childhood I had not the childhood my children had. However, that was the standard then. Times change. It still doesn't mean grandparents should sacrifice their retirement because you have children

Luhou · 13/04/2023 13:44

I just don't understand what else my inlaws do, I feel like looking after DD 1 day a week would give them something to do. I wouldn't mind but they provide their other Grandchildren with childcare a minimum of 1 day a week. But couldn't commit when it came to our DD

Madamecastafiore · 13/04/2023 13:45

I think it's morally poor to have children you can't afford and that also means if you can't afford childcare if you need to go back to work without relying on relatives.

Groutyonehereagain · 13/04/2023 13:46

uniformotxa · 13/04/2023 11:21

I have young dc and no childcare issues aside from the horrendous cost. My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire. Luckily I can afford childcare and nursery but I perhaps would feel more strongly if I couldn’t. However, whilst it’s easy for me to say this now, I do think I would step up and do some childcare for my dc if they had children. I can’t imagine just letting the days roll by leisurely and not setting aside even one day a week to be a reliable help.

I know in other cultures this is standard and families pull together much more. AIBU to think there is actually a moral obligation here, to make some form of childcare contribution, however small?

My parents, like many others I know, enjoy being with dc but it’s pretty much always on their terms. They would take them for a day but it wouldn’t be consistent or reliable so couldn’t make it a regular thing.

Im not sure how I feel about this and on balance I think it’s pretty morally dire.

You should feel grateful that your parents enjoy being with their grandchildren and it’s completely right that it’s on their times.

Morally dire? You’re nuts @uniformotxa .

cobblers123 · 13/04/2023 13:47

It was around 1998 but my parents would have my 1 year old niece on one regular day a week, however my mum was in early stages of Alzheimers so my dad did most of the looking after. He was 69, mum was 72.

He enjoyed caring for her that one day a week but no way could he have done more with a wife in declining health.

Dacadactyl · 13/04/2023 13:47

Dotjones · 13/04/2023 13:32

YANBU, it's morally wrong for grandparents who are able to look after their grandchildren to refuse to do so. Ultimately the grandchildren exist because the grandparents had children of their own so they are at least as equally responsible as the parents are.

Obviously there's a big difference between a frail 85 year old grandparent and a fit 55 year old grandparent, but the grandparent should offer to provide as much free care as they are able.

You have GOT to be joking!

I've looked after my own kids since I was 21. My whole adult life has revolved round them, first as a SAHM, now working PT, all for their benefit.

When our kids are grown up, we'll be 44 and 46. Ill still be young enough to start a career, we can travel, have time to do stuff for us.

Beautiful3 · 13/04/2023 13:47

@ktitten What a lovely post ♥

Ffsmakeitstop · 13/04/2023 13:48

AdeIe · 13/04/2023 11:29

There's no obligation don't be so ridiculous. If they wanted to restrict their lives with regular childcare they would. For you to expect something is grabby. You chose to have your kids. My PILs have never offered to have my kids, never had them overnight and they are late teens now. I dont love them any less or think any less of them, that's their choice. They see plenty of them while we are all there, and love them dearly. There's no issue.

Exactly this.
We always hear on here about mil's who want to interfere with naming, weaning etc and the advice is always "they've had their children this is your turn". Can't have it both ways. You sound very entitled.

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