C-section not real birth

[Washingforweeks]

I was just scrollling through Facebook and saw a post about women getting shamed for c-sections. I’ve had 3 vaginal births never a c section so I have never personally experienced this kind of…. Well wtf is it…. Ridiculousness. Is this genuinely a real thing?? Are there women out there being shamed for having c-sections? If so Jesus Christ. Seriously?!

I genuinely don’t get the whole wearing it like a badge of honour thing if you’ve given birth without pain relief. Congratulations, you were in pain for hours?! Is that something to celebrate?

A lack of pain relief when birthing DS meant I had to focus so much on my breathing and keeping myself calm that I wasn’t particularly “with it”. The epidural I had with DD meant I was fully present, focussed, able to chat with DH and DM, and I felt much more relaxed.

The people who dismiss women who’ve had c-sections are ridiculous, and very offensive to those for whom a c-section was life saving.

For me, birth was something to get through. I wanted to labour, birth my baby, then go home and enjoy my baby. I placed no importance on how my baby was born, so long as it was safe. And I certainly don’t tie my self-worth to how I birthed my children!

You're responding to the wrong person. I agree with you.

'Giving birth is a traumatic and often brutal process and historically it very often killed women and children. "Interventions" as they are described, often mean the difference between life and death.'

Quite right @Thepeopleversuswork . Historically, women half expected not to survive childbirth. Just a couple of examples: 2 of Henry Vlll's wives (2 of the 4 who actually gave birth) died in childbirth, as well as his mother. Queen Victoria is only queen because her cousin died in childbirth with her baby.

The interventions available today are a blessing to both mothers and children. Women of all people should know better than to put other women under pressure to do it the 'natural' way as this is downright dangerous.

I think you must be responding to someone else's comment.

I wonder if some women feel that by having a c section, other women are 'cheating' and it's not fair? I'm pretty sure most women would prefer to have a straightforward, safe and quick vaginal delivery with no complications and wouldn't opt to be cut open and sewn back up again if they felt they had no other real choice. They aren't trying to find loopholes in the rules.

Sorry! Quoted you quoting her

Babooshka Would you be kind enough to clarify that the comments being attributed to be are actually yours.

me

I very much chose to have a section. I didn’t want birth. I didn’t want labour. I didn’t want pain for an unspecified amount of time, before potentially having intervention and or winding up with a section anyway. I wanted calm control, to know what was happening. And it was, for me, incredible.

I had a rubbish pregnancy but I stayed very fit, and I recovered so well. I supported my abdomen and wound with a Belly Bandit (which I highly recommend) and my abs came back together immediately, my wound is flat and I was driving after ten days. For me it was perfect.

I don’t understand the derision I get for it. I would never deride another woman for her birth. Except maybe freebirthers. They’re insane.

Actually I take it back! I quoted @Babooshka1992 correctly, I think you are just getting tagged as well because she tagged you in the quoted comment.

Some people just get competitive over really weird things.

I find it quite pathetic.

There's 5 of us plus dog in this house. The only one of us not born by C-section was the dog. Anyone claiming that it's "not real birth" can go and take a running jump.

The recovery from my sections was awful. Bloody awful. And took months in the case of the 3rd. I have nerve issues in my back 18 months later and my bowels... Best not talked about.

I've had 3 sections for 3 different reasons and consider them to be the best experiences of my life because I met my babies and they were safe and healthy.

I don't consider it the easy option and get a bit pissed off (internally, just smile on the outside) when people make out its easier.

The actual worst point ever was the syntocinon to induce the first. That stuff should be illegal without an epidural, I wanted to die.

The actual worst point ever was the syntocinon to induce the first. That stuff should be illegal without an epidural, I wanted to die.

Agreed. Natural contractions were an absolute piece of piss in comparison.

Yes, happened to me. One emergency section and one planned, was told real women push!
Recovering from surgery took a long time and I struggled with the emergency section (lead up to was horrendous and I honestly think I had some form of ptsd)
Having a prem baby in the Special Care Baby Unit was a dreadful experience and the guilt I felt for not being able to carry them to term was overwhelming. DC has a lifelong medical condition and I didn't need any further fuel poured on my feelings of inadequacy fire.
Funnily enough I didn't remain friends with the woman who said it.

@Thepeopleversuswork I think I need to be clearer on what I meant.

Nothing I've read suggests that birth (whether vaginal or surgical) will be pain free.

What I have seen suggested is that women's experience of that pain can be influenced by preparation and mindset.

It's often said on here that some women having planned sections find the whole process very manageable in terms of pain. If you've picked that method due to fear of vaginal birth, you've removed fear. If you know you'll be in pain after you can plan your pain medication and support accordingly.

The same for some women who give birth vaginally. Their planning for pain relief, their mindset that birth isn't scary can help them feel their pain is manageable. They can plan for several outcomes so they feel in control of changes of plan. They can research pain relief options and decide what is suitable for them. That could be epidural on arrival, that could be nothing but warm water.

There is so much negative portrayal of birth. I was watching a drama where several women give birth (historical characters so we know each survived and the long term outcomes for their children) every birth was some mega dramatic scream fest. If that's all you've seen of birth that's what you might expect for all births.

@Ithurtsthebackofmyeyes

I very much chose to have a section. I didn’t want birth. I didn’t want labour. I didn’t want pain for an unspecified amount of time, before potentially having intervention and or winding up with a section anyway. I wanted calm control, to know what was happening. And it was, for me, incredible.

I agree with this. I desperately wanted a C-section but because there were no particular risk factors for me I was pushed towards a vaginal birth and I went with it out of a sense of inertia and also some vague sense that I should do it if there was no reason not to. I was terrified of giving birth: the whole thing scared the living daylights out of me and I had no truck with this idea that it would be better because it was "natural" or that it would be some earth-shattering experience having my insides ripped apart. I thought and I still think it's a complete con. As it turned out my birth wasn't especially traumatic as births go, 14 hour labour with epidural, ventouse and some stitching which I found very hard at the time but in the scheme of things I think I got off fairly lightly.

I absolutely respect that some women want to give birth vaginally with minimal interventions and believe they should be supported if they want to do so, (though if I'm honest I struggle to understand their motivations). And of course a C section isn't by any stretch of the imagination an "easy" or a pain free way to deliver a baby.

But I am still angry and gobsmacked at the continuing currency around the idea of "natural birth". Or that a "natural" birth (which, let's be honest, is an incredibly painful experience even in a best-case scenario) is somehow superior to a C section and that it's some sort of failure of your resolve or moral fibre if you seek to avoid this. As many people have said on this thread and elsewhere if men gave birth you can bet your last penny they wouldn't be falling over themselves to demonstrate their ability to take high levels of pain in the service of "parenthood".

One of the biggest causes of maternal death at these times was infection. Both Jane Seymour and Catherine Parr died of childbed fever.

Modern medicine is a marvel. We have women today getting pregnant who previously wouldn't, babies surviving that previously wouldn't and mothers surviving and not contracting life threatening infections like we did. We are very lucky.

What would have saved many many women's lives in times gone by was washing hands and hood hygiene.

I absolutely respect that some women want to give birth vaginally with minimal interventions and believe they should be supported if they want to do so, (though if I'm honest I struggle to understand their motivations)

I felt like this until I saw my sister have her 2 babies. A few paracetamol, 8 hours of labour in the bath, at home a few hours after giving birth, brimming with energy and feeling great. It was hard, of course. She worked bloody hard and was in pain but it was an amazing experience for her. I am so glad she had that, for her. We are very different people 😁

@Twizbe

There is so much negative portrayal of birth. I was watching a drama where several women give birth (historical characters so we know each survived and the long term outcomes for their children) every birth was some mega dramatic scream fest. If that's all you've seen of birth that's what you might expect for all births.

Your clarification makes sense and I see what you're getting at, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

I'm afraid fundamentally I think birth is an unavoidably awful experience however you look at it. The only positive thing that emerges from it is the baby. Which is a big positive and ultimately why we put ourselves through it. But I honestly think people who convince themselves a vaginal delivery is a spiritual experience are deluding themselves. It's almost a kind of religious denial of reality like people flagellating themselves in the name of the Catholic Church. I just don't buy it.

Yes it helps to be informed, to plan and to argue your case. But pretending this will help manage pain is just dishonest. Far healthier for people to face up to the fact that it's a really difficult, painful and traumatic process but that modern medicine will make it survivable and have faith that it will be worth it in the end.

Just to be super clear as well. I support women making informed choice about their births. I support all women having the evidence based information COMBINED with their own medical history and risks in order to make these choices.

I think we need to be careful over language. Vaginal birth rather than natural birth for instance. We also need to be careful that in supporting women's right to choose a c section, we don't continue to make comments like 'loose Fanny' which shame women as well.

I said right at the start that often this shaming comes from women seeing another woman's choice as a judgement of their choice. I think this quite a natural human reaction, but it doesn't really help anyone.

I have a barrage of insults coming at me over a viewpoint I find repugnant - there's something wrong with the quote system.

@Thepeopleversuswork I think we will, but that's ok. We are not made to always agree with each other :)

@easterbunny999 ·

I haven't had a C-section but have been shamed for needing an epidural/ forceps - mostly by midwifery staff.

I still carry guilt about being told I wasn't trying and that "I d have to have c section if I didn't" by midwives after my forcep delivery. It wasn't surprising that after 6 hours of post induction contractions and begging for pain relief (no one bothered to showed me how to use gas and air) I bit their hand off when offered an epidural (no plans to have one). Layer of guilt spread on that too for turning my previous text book pregnancy now into a 'high risk birth'.
First thing the gynecologist said 3 month later when I was referred because I was unable to walk properly "well they did a pretty shit job on putting you back together" so I defy anyone to judge another woman's birth choices or how their baby comes into the world. Now left with a very coloured view of most medical professionals if I'm honest.

I hear you 100%. My first two labours were hellish and I had zero doubts about my third birth being an elective section, because I wanted to avoid all of the uncertainty and long, protracted hours of agony and complications. At the time I thought that if I knew I would probably have a short, quick and 'easy' delivery I wouldn't have gone for the c section. My consultant said that as my doctor, she was leaving it up to me, but as a woman she would also opt for the c section in my case. I completely understand the peace in knowing that a huge amount of uncertainty is removed with a c section, and you don't need to have to had tasted it first hand to qualify to make that decision.